Meeting With a Clinician

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 Transcript:

Brent: So we're here with our Firefighters Support podcast. We're with Sean Morris today. Our number one vetted clinician. Just kidding. I don't know if I can say that, but

Sean: Let's say that. I like that. haha

Brent: But we just wanted to talk a little bit today about the process of why it's important to tune up our brains as much as we tune up the other physical parts of our body as far as fitness and other things. I think in the fire service especially, there's a big emphasis on fitness and cause that's directly related to the job. How long you can run, how much you can lift is directly gonna be related to the impact you have on a scene.

Brent: But maybe Sean, especially with your background in the fire service as maybe just kinda give us a little bit of why your brain is also just as if not even more important than the physical side of keeping that tuned up and very operable.

Sean: Yeah, sure. I don't know if one's. more important than the other.

Sean: I guess I would just say it's, it all works together. It, there, there was a time, back a number of years ago that, we paid attention. If you talked about health and fitness, you that seemed to pertain to your physical health. And if you were fit that.

Sean: Seem to pertain to, that you were physically fit. Now we realize it's all connected. If you're doing well physically, you're also doing well mentally, emotionally and vice versa. And that really, as we're striving for maybe this, this idea of wellness it, it includes both.

Sean: And, from a firefighter perspective. , it, it takes both. Certainly it, it does take being able to, have the strength and the energy and that sort of stuff that, may pertain to your physical health. But it also takes the ability to be resilient, the ability to be able to think and handle stress and react appropriately under pressure and all those different things that, but but.

Sean: it all works together. And, if we're struggling in one area, it's gonna have an impact. If we're struggling mentally, we're not gonna be able to be as responsive physically and be able to be able. be as strong, be as, yeah. As fit, so to speak. And mental and physical it works together.

Sean: And it's all, what we're striving for as far as that that state of wellbeing.

Brent: Yeah, I think that's, interesting because I think a lot of the times we feel like I'm just gonna overcome, like I work out to clear my mental health. And while it's related that way too, but I'm just gonna compensate, I'm gonna be extra strong because I don't want to deal with my mental stuff, but I'll go tackle a gym an extra two or three times a week.

Brent: But if I understood from what you're saying, if you're not mentally there, you're not gonna be able to get the most out of your muscles or your cardio either. Accurate. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I also forgot to introduce, we got Eric Shields from the peer team here today as well. Thanks for having me.

Brent: But Eric, maybe you can give us a little bit straight from the firefighter perspective on what's maybe keeping guys from tuning up their brain as much as tuning up their physical fitness.

Eric: So I think it's easy to, you can look at yourself in the mirror, you can see differences. Get motivated that way.

Eric: Mentally, it's hard to see those changes and you can't see or look up on the internet. How do I work this muscle of the brain, how do I repair these neurons? Or how do I get over this trauma and what exercises can I do? I don't think it's that simple, and so people don't really know how to go about it without the help from a therapist.

Eric: I think we're self-reliant, and to step down and say, Hey, I need somebody's help is sometimes difficult. I think it's interesting you asked me to come today, cuz this four off, dude, I was having a, I was having a rough time man. I like to exercise to work out those demons.

Eric: Took my pre-workout, went down to my little workout room, and I laid on the floor and I didn't do crap like mentally. I wasn't there. I wasn't healthy. And so yeah, I think it's good. Could be here today and talk about it. Yeah, [00:04:00] I, my wife came down, I was literally laying on the floor just babe, I can't do it today.

Eric: I don't have anything in me today. I don't know what's wrong. I was angry. Just all that boiling up and she said, you need to see a therapist. You need to, I was like, ah, I dunno, I don't want to. And maybe I don't know. And but what really helped was she actually made an appointment for me this coming Monday.

Brent: Wives are the worst wives.

Eric: Yeah. Why do they always know what to do.

Brent: Why do they have to fix everything? No, that's I think that's awesome and I appreciate you sharing that because and I feel like I do the exact same thing except I do it with my work here at Rescue 1 Studios.

Brent: There are some days where I have so much to do, but I'll come sit in that chair over there and sit down to. And nothing happens and I just can't. It's almost like I know some people feel that way when they wake up in the morning and for whatever reason they just can't get out of bed. Sometimes I sit in that chair and it's ah, I [00:05:00] can't.

Brent: do it. There's nothing I can do to motivate myself right now. Yeah. To, even though there's like bills on the line and clients are waiting on me, there's all the right pressures are there. So it's not a lack of reasons, but man, I just, I don't know what it is. Yeah. Sean, solve all our problems.

Sean: Well, I'll just say, first, thanks for being honest and sharing, your, those experiences and. Have those same experiences. And all of us do. I, meaning all of us listening to this podcast, we all have that and that's normal. We have days that are difficult. We have, sometimes those days lead into, weeks that are difficult.

Sean: Unfortunately that's just part of the challenge of life. We've got pressures, we've got stress, we have circumstances and situations that happen. And those are difficult at times. And even so much that they can be overwhelming, they can be debilitating. and and that's, that's life.

Sean: That's the life we live in. And, none of us are in that place where, we're just at the top of our game all times and, we can just handle and tackle everything. We sometimes try to, give the persona that we can do that, but. We all know that none of us are capable of doing that.

Sean: And just like you guys have shared, and I could, and I've had the same, I've had those times, many , lots of those times where, you know I don't have the motivation or I am discouraged about something or, the, even for more than discouraged, I'm depressed about something.

Sean: And it's really hard to go about sometimes, the regular routines of the day because of other things that are causing some, some difficulties. And I think that's the important part is that, the three of us aren't any different than, everybody else.

Sean: And we're all in this together, in, in that, you know what it's tough and whether it be, reaching out to, Hey, I need to. work with and talk with and just unload some stuff with with a friend. Maybe maybe, Hey I've got my spouse is somebody I can really share a lot with.

Sean: Or maybe it's a, a family member or maybe it's a member of the peer support team. Any of that can be helpful. And at the same time, you've got resources to talk to professional counselors and, maybe that's. the helpful thing that that's needed. But, and I guess maybe that's part of it too, is you've got a lot of options and utilize, a variety of those options.

Sean: Use what you feel comfortable and feel is gonna be the most helpful for you. But at the same time, don't, you know it's, if you're not getting, if you're not feeling better with some of the things you're. Try some other ones or include 'em all. .

Brent: Yeah. I want to touch on a couple things too that, that Eric had mentioned that also struck a chord with me is I think as firefighters we love the structure, right? We have our two on four off. We have this, we're doing this from this time. And when a call goes this, if you're in this seat, you're doing this job. And is there a way to tackle mental health in a similar, like is there exercises or certain I don't know, self-help, things that you recommend for your clients that they can do on their own that is more of a structure?

Brent: If you're feeling this. Stuck in a rut, here's one idea on how to do that, or here's something you can do every morning when you wake up to help you, I don't know. Is there anything like that? Or is it more complicated?

Sean: Every situation's a little bit different and But there are certainly things that can be done.

Sean: And going back to the earlier discussion, those things that can be done are, things that help you. With your physical health as well as help you with your mental, emotional health. Again, it's all connected. And again, these aren't gonna be earthshattering things, but they're sometimes things that we don't do as often as maybe we should.

Sean: And that's things like, you know what, making sure that we're getting some exercise. Making sure that we're eating nutritious foods and fueling our bodies with the things and not just our bodies, our minds as well with the things that we need. Making sure that we're getting rest.

Sean: Just as you mentioned Brent, about, some structure we need to get certain hours of sleep and our bodies need that. Our minds need that. And those are basic things. And then you can get into a little bit more specific things such as, breathing exercises and mindfulness of really being able.

Sean: Be in a, in the moment and not being distracted by the past or being, distracted as you're thinking towards something that's in the future, but really allow yourself to just be in the moment. And that's, by itself, that's a tough thing in our lives to do today because we've got so much going on all around us and sometimes distractions just with our, our.

Sean: Our phones and the technology and that sort of stuff. And if we can really find, a combination of those different things, those can all be, helpful things and again, none of those are, even, all of those are not the may not solve every situation, but Sure, certainly they help.

Eric: And if I may just go off, fill off that I think. Because you texted me and about the subjects we wanted to talk today and talking and getting in with a therapist and what we can do to make that step and what kind of holds us back. I think all these things that Sean has shared are really great and they are essential the daily life, like the exercise, good sleep.

Eric: And there's something that I've thought about for a long time that I wanted to share,, and that's about a pornography and something that I've struggled with and decided to share with our fire family and the exercise and the sleep's good, but sometimes there are just these things like an addiction or financial problems or something that you've tried to do these little exercises with for years and it's just always fasting and something that.

Eric: Kind of comes to my mind is your brain is your home, and you've got this mold growing inside and you can do what you want, but until you open the door, open the windows, shed some light on it, let it air out. What I mean is therapy. That mold is just gonna fester. And so I would really encourage guys to, if they've just got this mold, Or some problem that is not going away.

Eric: How beneficial for me talking with a therapist has been doesn't really cure it, but it makes some of the symptoms more mild. Helps with my anger that [00:11:00] comes from my issue. Helps me understand that I'm human. And one reason I wanted to share that with everybody is I want these podcasts to be efficient. I know sometimes you listen to a podcast and you're 20 minutes in, they, haven't said a whole lot. And so I'm hoping to add some value to everybody's time, but also, I'm not a therapist, but I'm there for guys if they wanna reach out to me. And just talk and how valuable it is just to open those windows and open those doors of your mind and breathe and find out how normal our problems are. Yeah. Yeah, I know that's of a sidetrack, maybe a bomb on this sort of thing.

Brent: I think that's super awesome because I think what happens with that mold that you're talking about is we start believing we're the only ones. Like we must be the only one that has had this problem or has had these thoughts.

Brent: And that's just not helpful or healthy thinking, in my opinion. And half the value I've gotten out of actual therapy sessions or pseudo therapy sessions with just like a close friend or whatever is putting your problems into words all of a sudden makes it tangible and solvable. But when we just keep it to ourselves and in our mind, it's almost just like our kids' bad dreams.

Brent: It's just this thing that haunts you that, but it's like soon as your kids try to tell you about their dream. This is probably a super sidetrack, but my kid will listen to this one day and be embarrassed that I told this, but he had a dream that he was getting chased by a rhinoceros.

Brent: Which for a six year old is super scary, right? But the second he tells us about it, Just articulating it made him realize, okay, I'm at home. There's no Rhinoceros. We're fine. But if he never would've come in to share that with us or that he woke up scared, he stays in his room. And for all he knows is rhinoceros in his closet ready to jump out at any second.

Brent: And so I think, not that firefighters are childish, but I think we probably do the same things with our own problems, keeping it to ourselves, it grows and festers and gets exaggerated and, becomes this insurmountable thing that we just keep tucking away. And in the words of our favorite comedian, Bill Burr “who in my life is gonna pay for this later, right?

Brent: Because I'm bottling all this stuff up. But I don't know. And maybe you can speak to that for a minute, Sean. Just the value of having a good listener, somebody that's totally objective. Not attached to the situation at all. Doesn't know you, doesn't know your family, doesn't know your crew, but just somebody that you can go pretty much say anything you want to and has zero attachment to you other than that session, sometimes there's value in just that fresh perspective and that, that kind of opinion, I guess.

Sean: Yeah, for sure. And first let me just, say how awesome that is, that Eric just shared what he did. As we've discussed, I we're all dealing with stuff, and like we said earlier, we can see how we might be, at least from a parent doing physically.

Sean: Unfortunately, we can't always see how somebody's doing mentally or emotionally, although, there's I think all of us know that. Yeah, we maybe don't act the same. Communicate the same when we're struggling. So there's certainly some signs when we're not doing well mentally either.

Sean: But at the same time, it's something that we can hide a little bit differently than sometimes how we might be doing physically. But to be able to share, that that has such a healing power and just being able to talk about how you're doing really and be honest with yourself.

Sean: So just hats off here to Eric for sharing that, and I'm sure that helps a lot of individuals listening to this, who are dealing with either the same type of challenge or other things that they are, concerned about and not really sure it would be something they would want to talk with others about.

Sean: But again, as you said, we're all normal and we, we're human. We got all this stuff going on. And then other aspect I'll just mention briefly is that, yeah, even though I said, hey, there's a lot of things that we can do in a preventative way.

Sean: There are times where we're dealing with stuff as, and Eric certainly mentioned something that, some of those preventative things it's past that. Now I need something a little bit deeper. I need something a little more specific to the challenge I'm experiencing. And take advantage of that.

Sean: And that I think, leads right into, to your question, Brent, on the, sometimes I don't want to necessarily talk to somebody I know or, A family member a religious leader on this particular issue? I'm not, I don't feel comfortable doing that, but I do feel like I could, talk to somebody who, in all respects is a stranger to me as far as my everyday life.

Sean: And also that they have training to help me be able to navigate through those things. And so I can, not only, Have to worry that, oh, now what does that person know and what are they thinking now that they know something. But also sometimes we need some specific training.

Sean: We need somebody who has learned how to help people process certain things and go through that. So wherever you might find yourself in that process, know that, sometimes having that trained person that has no emotional connection. can allow you just to unload and and they keep all that between you and them and help you navigate through that.

Brent: I think the key word there is trained, right? Another quick side story, but this is probably like a year and a half ago. My mom started feeling like this heartburn and had all these symptoms that were like classic heart attack, right?

Brent: So I have four older brothers, and they're all like more white-collar corporate America, right? And so out of the five of us, EMTs son, she has an ER nurse daughter-in-law. Who does she call out of that whole group to talk to about her heartburn? The one brother that's over HR in his company… I’m like, what?

Brent: And she's like, “I didn't want to call you cause I knew you'd tell me to go to the hospital”. like, Hello. But I think, man, how often do we do the same thing with brain stuff, right? Because I don't want to talk to the person that will actually help me, or that's trained in brain stuff.

Brent: I think hopefully as firefighters we can appreciate that because how many times do we go on scene and there's some “helper” who it's like, please go do something in the other room.

Brent: Yeah. Like, Let the train professionals handle this situation, so we're so quick to get annoyed with that on scene. And yet for ourselves I don't wanna talk to a trained professional about my brain. Yeah. So I, I think if we can be humble enough to recognize that there's somebody that probably knows more about brains than we do, then that may be a good first step to seeing somebody.

Brent: I wanted to circle back to one other thing with Eric's experience with his wife and, again, with your background in marriage and family counseling as well, Sean. Cause I think not everybody has a wife that maybe is as brave as Eric's, I know my wife wouldn't do that, out of fear of how I would react.

Brent: If she did this. And even though it's all outta love, like I don't think, I think I would react fairly poorly. So if you're the spouse of a firefighter listening to this podcast and you notice there are some things going on what you know, and I think that's a great step if you can, if you're like, you know what, you're doing this.

Brent: Cause I think sometimes firefighters need a good kick in the behind just to get it done, yeah. And a lot of the guys would respond well to that. Just too bad, so sad. Here you go. You need to do this. What other advice or your take on what a spouse can do to help somebody that they are noticing something's a little off or a little different?

Sean: Yeah. Gosh, there's so much to say in that question. , your spouse should be that person or hopefully is that person that's your best friend. That's the person that's got your back, that's the person that cares more about you than, anything or anybody else.

Sean: And they want the best for you. And really being able to. To appreciate that sometimes we, we get caught up in, the struggle, the challenge sometimes, maybe the difficulty we might be having our relationships and to really, when we can put all that aside and just realize that, you know what, this person cares for me and or ideally cares for me and only wants the best for me.

Sean: And yeah, if a spouse that's listening to this, but for that matter, you that are in the fire industry too, life isn't always super easy, and just everything's wonderful for your spouse either, so it goes both ways, but that's really about, just being observant and, and, looking for ways that you can help your partner and if you see things that, gosh, my partner is, they seem to be a little bit more on edge.

Sean: They're not, even just, the physical appearance is different. The way they're communicating with our kids or with their family, or with their friends or the fact that they're not, they're isolating themselves. All in any of those things are, and Continue down a list of things that are indication that, hey, my, my spouse is struggling a little bit.

Sean: And so certainly for you in the fire industry, sometimes you. You take that home with you and again, it doesn't have to be specific to fire, of course, it can be just life's tough sometimes. And having the support of your spouse who knows you probably better than anybody else, who recognizes those things, who's willing to help you be able to find resources and maybe.

Sean: Help take that step that maybe in some respects you really need that person to help you take and to lead lead out on that. And as I said, but at the same time, provide that to your spouse as well. Life isn't, whatever they're doing and whatever their careers are and their situations.

Sean: Or, they need, you to be observant, supportive, helpful, and sometimes leading them into that, that helpful step too. But I think ultimately, as you're doing that for each other, as you care about each other, and if those are, particular challenges if anybody listening is oh, you know what, that's the type of relationship marriage I'd love to have.

Sean: That's not what we have. Know that there's help for that too. And don't just fighting through it or just suffering together. Get some help and figure out a way to make that, that relationship, what you've, maybe at one time either had or dreamt it could be.

Eric: And I think with mine and Shannon's experience just this last few days, and going back to what you were saying, Sean my wife, yeah. She saw me and she calmly said, I can't help you. She said, I, as of right now, I'm out of ideas and calmly and kindly, and as patient as she was, she said I don't know what to do.

Eric: You need to get help. The day went on, still grumpy and depressed. And then she asked, what if I called and made you an appointment and, I wasn't brave enough to make the call myself, but I'll be brave enough to show up. But making that step is huge. Yeah. So I'm grateful for her for that.

Eric: So I hope there are some spouses listening and just, and I would maybe encourage them if they feel like their husband or wife needs therapy or another resource to say, Hey, I'm out of ideas for now, but maybe. . What if I made the appointment and I drove you there? Or are you willing to do that?

Eric: And I think a lot of guys would be, it's just making that first step,

Brent: I think that's a great point. And I, and for those that maybe don't feel like they want to have that conversation or not ready to have that conversation with their spouse yet that's exactly what the peer team's for as well, right?

Brent: If you don't feel like you can have that conversation with your spouse right this second you could. Always ask the peer team member to set up the appointment for you as well. And I think that's half the reason the peer team's here is we want to have the options for you to do that as privately as you want, but also with enough, with as much as support as you want.

Brent: And regardless, the peer team keeps it super confidential as well, just cuz you have a peer team member help you set an appointment. They don't disclose that to anybody, . And so the confidentiality remains intact. Between you and that peer team member if you go that route. But yeah, ideally going through your, to your, through your spouse would also be, a good bonding moment as well to get through that together.

Brent: And it just made me think while you're saying that, like what would be wrong with me just asking my wife not, forcing her to get to the point where she just can't take it anymore or whatever. But what if I were to just say, you know what, I'm struggling.

Brent: I can't do this step on my own. Would you call for me? and just take that burden off of her for a minute and open that door, like you said. Open that door to your mind and let them take over.

Eric: But yeah, and it sounds childish, right? It sounds kinda yeah, oh, will you make this appointment for me?

Eric: I don't want to go to the dentist you call, or, but really it's a big step asking for help. And so I think if any of us on the department are asked. I ask and I'll try myself. It'll be really accepting of whatever they're asking and saying yeah, I'll do it. That doesn't sound childish, that that was a big step and let's get you going in the right direction.

Brent: I can't help but keep relating it back to our very own field, right? How many times have we blamed somebody for calling 9 1 1? Even if they didn't need 9 1 1, we still, Hey, if you're ever nervous or whatever, just call us. We're happy to come back, right? We say that all the time.

Brent: We never want you to hesitate to call 9 1 1 when you need help. And yet for ourselves. We can't do it . Yeah. know, It just seems so ironic that the very field we're in Yeah. We're so capable of doing and getting in the right mindset.

Brent: But man, when it comes to our own self-help, we're on the other end of the spectrum. Yeah. You need that third party. Yeah. I think, yeah, I think that's a great point. Want to end on one? Two-sided question is, and this goes to anybody, but certainly want to hear your thoughts, Sean is what are some of the risks that firefighters are now taking on by not talking to somebody?

Brent: And then what's the hope or what's the possibilities, by talking to somebody, your life could be this, by not talking to somebody your life has the potential to be this and maybe give us that range. On both the negative and the positive.

Sean: I think it might be important for us to say too, that, it is, it's also normal to be hesitant about, starting the process of talking to people.

Sean: We often talk about, whether it be firefighters or people in first responder profession, are slow to reach out for help. But part of that is the fact that, most first responders were at least, are alpha males. The three of us are, we're a little slower to To reach out to acknowledge we're struggling to seek help then than a female might be.

Sean: Now again, that's a little bit of some stereotyping there, but yeah, so I, so part of it, it's normal. It's normal for the gender. It's also, ties a little bit to hey, we're used to going and helping others versus getting help ourselves. And In regards to the question about kind of the risk associated when we're struggling and whatever that struggle can be, whether it's different things that we've talked a little bit about here today.

Sean: Whether it be due to, a particular call, whether it be due, just the volume of calls that you've experienced over maybe, a period of time or your career in general. And the other part of that maybe is worth mentioning is, it can be a call that maybe everybody else is fine with.

Sean: But what, for whatever reason, that particular call was difficult for you. I've shared, I was a firefighter and that's been years ago now, but I still remember a call and I don't think that call would've been um, I'm sure everybody else that was on that call has totally forgotten about it.

Sean: It was such a routine, not a big deal call, but for whatever reason, for me, at that particular time, for the scenario, it stuck in my mind you know, We have these different things and then, how do we navigate through 'em? And, what's the risk if we don't, and you. Somehow, we're gonna deal with the struggles, the challenges the frustration we might be experiencing and, a healthy way, there are healthy ways to deal with it.

Sean: Talking to somebody certainly would be one of those healthy ways. If we don't do that We can start to find ourselves looking for alternative ways to deal with it. And that might be using alcohol and maybe start, drinking to deal with the situation. And maybe we just become more agitated and angry and that we take that out on people and unfortunately we often, when we do that, we take it out on the people we care the most about or who we feel the safest around. Maybe we are the, the most pleasant, helpful kind person when we're, around the guys and gals we work with. But we go home and we're just, you we're horrible to the people that, that we trust, the people that we care most about.

Sean: So, And obviously that can be a risk to our relationships. Certainly, our diet, we can also find that, hey, I, I just eating. And that kind of soothes the frustration and the anger that I feel. And these are some of the things that we see in the first responders is those risk are, substance use overeating relationship problems and struggles to mental health crisis to where, we're dealing with some areas of anxiety, depression, PTSD and it really becomes, very challenging, debilitating in various aspects of our life. And we're trying to find ways to cope with the struggle we're having. And unfortunately, at times those struggle, the ways that we try to find could be even adding to the problem and just making it more difficult. So those are the risks that can be associated. By no means do I say, Hey, this is what's gonna happen, but it's a possibility. And yet on the, the other aspect that you know that Yes by talking with people, dealing with it, processing things getting help, letting, getting stuff out in the open, looking at different ways to, to deal with things on a more probably healthy way to, to navigate through stuff that can just be, could be much better.

Brent: I think it's true for everybody and everybody's situation a little different, but everything's extremely solvable in my mind. You know that no matter what you think you're going through, no matter how bad the mold is, right? There is a way to overcome that, and the other side is peace.

Brent: You know, I can't think of a better word to describe what guys that are suffering want. They're not necessarily looking for this extreme joy and happiness and bouncing off the walls. But man, just to be at peace and to be able to rest is a big deal. Yeah. And man, you can get it like it's there.

Brent: It's not out of reach, that's not. Something that has to be removed from your lifestyle because of this job or because of the way you've chosen to deal with it up to this point. But by just starting that snowball, I think of talking to somebody that. Step to peace and rest is one step closer and not that far off. As far as ways you may seem, I guarantee it's closer than what you think.

Eric: I think we're all pretty harsh on ourselves. You're judging yourself, you think, oh I'm worse than so and, but we're so similar like everybody's got issues. There's not a single person that doesn't Have some kind of drinking or addiction or. , whatever it may be, anger.

Brent: Except for Luke Brannan. Man, that guy . Just kidding. Everybody likes Luke.

Eric: And I, so I just want to reiterate my invitation. First off, go see a therapist if you've got some kind of addiction or something going on. But there's guys out there that are struggling with the same thing. I'm one of 'em. So I invite anybody to, to text me or call me and just. Have a friend in this similar issues if you want it. So just wanna throw that out there. If you feel like it's something that you don't want in your life, some people don't see it as a problem, but if you do and it's something festering, then lets chat.

Sean: I think that's, as you just said, hey, feel free to reach out, text me, call me. Cuz sometimes even, making that appointment or going to see the therapist there can be some steps that you do before that to where you get a little bit more comfortable to doing, the step of actually setting that appointment. But so yeah, reach out to your peer support team. You can certainly reach out to me. You have access to my number there on the website and I'm, more than happy to take a phone call that maybe you're comfortable doing that but Not yet comfortable to set an appointment, so to speak, but you're comfortable to make a phone call and just say, Hey, I, you. I've got a question about whatever it is and what would you suggest? Whether that be a phone call, whether that be a text just know that you've got a lot of resources available to you to start a process and what you ultimately decide to do of course is gonna be up to you, but there's resources to, to utilize to figure out what might be the best most helpful step.

Brent: I think this went really well today. I appreciate both of you guys being here and taking time to, to do this. And I hope, just as everybody said, and anybody listening, spouse or firefighter, otherwise if this is the, that little extra motivation you needed to take that next step we hope it's there and you got a whole peer team ready to help you if you need it.

Brent: So we'll sign off for today and again, appreciate you guys for being here.