From Probie to Pro: Don't Stop Being a "New Guy"

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TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Brent Harding: Welcome back to another episode of our Firefighter Support Podcast. We're here with some companions, a captain and a probie, recently graduated probie, not a probie anymore, but here with Captain Brian Davies, who's also runs the RCA and is in charge of the fire training program at Bridgeland Applied Technology.

[00:00:19] Bryan Davies: Bridgerland Technical College. Bridgerland

[00:00:21] Brent Harding: Technical College. It's changed, sorry. And Jordan Woolley, who went through the program, and then, did you work part time? I did. So then went part time with Logan Fire and then full time and is now... The epitome of what everybody hopes to be at Logan Fire. So Jordan, let's start with you a little bit and then we'll move to Brian.

Just before we get into our topic of discussing being on probation, what that's like, just tell us what we brought to you, what made you want to be a firefighter, and then kind of walk us through your experience at the RCA. And we'll kind of go from there.

[00:00:50] Jordan Woolley: Okay I guess a little bit about me. I grew up in Arizona, moved to Utah in the middle of high school, finished high school down in Riverton.

Went on a mission down to Chile, came back and had no idea what I wanted to do. So I did what every good boy does and went to college and got a degree in something I didn't really care about. And it was right there at the end, I was finishing my last semester of college and I was like, Man, I gotta...

I gotta figure this out. I don't know what's going on. And so I started YouTube in like a day in the life of a firefighter because I mean like I'd always thought about it I had a couple people tell me like oh you should look into it But I never gave them any notice and so I started looking up a couple YouTube videos I'm like, yeah, this could be cool so I just jumped right into the EMT basic class because I was it was starting soon.

And so I did that during my last semester of college and Way more than I thought I would. I was never really good at school. Never liked it. Never thought of myself as somebody smart. But, really liked the medical stuff way more than I thought. And that kind of just led straight into the Fire Academy.

And straight into the Advanced EMT. And being here, especially doing that academy here in Logan. You meet a lot of people who work local. All throughout the state and so, got lucky enough to get hired on part time pretty quick after finishing the academy and that's kind of what got me here.

Yeah,

[00:01:57] Brent Harding: that's awesome. So no, no firefighters in your family or no, like. Nope, no. No kind of leading up to it. It's just kind of you're the pioneer. Yeah, it's

[00:02:05] Jordan Woolley: Just me. That's awesome. Nobody really knew much about

[00:02:07] Brent Harding: it, so. So how has it lived up to your expectations YouTube

[00:02:11] Bryan Davies: experience of the day in the

[00:02:12] Jordan Woolley: life?

Well. It's been pretty good. I have no complaints. I mean, honestly, I've worked a lot of different jobs, did a lot of construction growing up, a lot of things that I swore I would never do again. And I love this job. Like it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. The best thing I've ever done.

Like my wife will make fun of me all the time because I'm always like thinking about it. I'm always talking about it. Like. I don't know if it's bad that it consumes me a little bit but I absolutely love it.

[00:02:35] Brent Harding: Oh, that's great. And we can tell, I think everybody that's worked with you is I've never heard negative things about Jordan, but except for your captain

[00:02:42] Bryan Davies: behind your back.

But other than that, I've got lots There I'm sure well, that's awesome

[00:02:46] Brent Harding: We're gonna circle back on the RCA stuff and kind of talk about what it's like to go through that But captain Davies give us a little background on you where did all this start for you and how'd you get into fire in general and then Kind of walk us through your resume and career.

Well,

[00:03:00] Bryan Davies: supposedly it dates back to when I was two during a family reunion, I was interviewed and I said, when I grew up, I wanted to be a fire engine. So didn't quite become that, but honestly, I don't know exactly. I don't have anybody in the family that did it. But I knew from an early age that's what I wanted to do.

Had a a person in church who was a captain and He didn't do a whole lot with us, but there was enough there. I think that kind of sparked my interest in it. And then, literally in high school started doing some stuff with the local fire department when I local here in Logan, no, in California, and had a.

When I was 18, I had secured a job when I graduated high school doing a wildland fires. And so literally the day after I graduated high school, I packed up my car, drove to Utah and started doing wildland the next day. Did four years of that and got my degree. During that time and once I finished, that was kind of before online schooling.

So I did my degree first. And once I finished that, then I started applying and, took a job with Logan over around 26 years ago. That's

[00:03:59] Brent Harding: awesome. Yeah. And where did Bridgerland fall into all that? And when did you kind of take over that

[00:04:04] Bryan Davies: program? I kind of stumbled into that. It's kind of a bit of a story.

I think Jordan and I were just talking about this recently, but I've been involved with Bridger Lynn for probably since around year 2000 initially just helping out with EMT classes. And when they started a fire program. I kind of just dumb luck it fell into my lap and luckily I didn't have to interview against other people and stuff like that, or else I probably wouldn't have the job.

So

[00:04:29] Brent Harding: tell us give us a little intro to the program and kind of how it's evolved and then certainly what it looks like today for anybody that's listening, that's been considering this as a career and using that as their first step into. Figuring out if this is for them.

[00:04:42] Bryan Davies: Yeah it went from pretty casual, and also having in the exact same class volunteers and people that wanted to do it as a career.

There were issues and different strengths and weaknesses from combining both those groups and eventually led us to separate them. And eventually the the county took back their volunteer stuff and we continued with our our career pathway. And which is actually really good because even though they do the same job, when you're preparing to do it as a career there's different things that you want to emphasize.

And and so I think it's really allowed us to kind of dial down, drill down into, putting out a better product and in the end, I mean, that's what the crews, that's what the chiefs, that's what people want is, a good firefighter. Yeah.

[00:05:32] Brent Harding: So what can somebody expect going through today?

Because it's not just the skills and tactics, but part of it's the culture too, right? Like preparing somebody to enter a fire department and have a good probationary year.

[00:05:45] Bryan Davies: Yeah I kind of laugh because a lot of the things that, that they're... evaluated on and and even just kind of things that are stressed are not actual state skills, getting somebody to tie a knot in a certain amount of time is easy.

However, getting them to learn how to deal with. Stress to deal with failure, to deal with all sorts of different things. Like that's nowhere in the state skills, but that is what we do. We spend time doing that because they're not going to get the skill right. All the time. They're not going to be successful all the time.

They're going to get frustrated at their partner. They're going to all these different little things. And it's. learning how to handle that. It's learning how to be a public representative. It's learning all these different things. An example of that is a couple of classes ago I was walking down the hallway in Bridgerland and the firefighters were on the other side and it Was before class started just a little bit before and I could just hear them dropping the f bomb and all sorts of stuff And I just kind of looked around the corner and they were in uniform and everything like that and it's like it's not acceptable You know once you throw on the shirt once you put on the uniform It's like you're a representative And so that class from that time on, I implemented a few things and they would pay physically for any infractions of cussing when they had their uniform on.

And again, nowhere is that a state skill, but that's what that's what the administrators want is people who are good people and represent the city, represent the department, stuff like that. Yeah.

[00:07:20] Brent Harding: I think that's fantastic because. Yeah, when we're wearing the Logan City shirt and you're out shopping, getting groceries, you're being seen by so many people that you probably don't even know, but you're being watched.

And so any little thing that gets back to the chief, there's one more stressor on his plate. Even if it's really not that big of a deal to him personally, the fact that he now has to deal with this being reported, is not good. So it's, I think that's awesome to start that mindset early. So when I went through, I think I was one of the last county combined classes I went through in 2007.

Man, it feels like a long time ago. But but man, it was so much fun. Like I, like for me starting the EMT class, like that's where I originally thought, getting into some of the medical. After doing the EMT is like, I love the emergency side. And so that pushed me into the fire. And then of course, once you do fire, it's like, there's no turning back.

That's the hook. What, one more question for you, Brian. And then I want to hear from Jordan on his RCA experience. But what type of person usually does well in, through the academy? Like. Are they pretty self driven? Are they, come into the class day one already kind of a stand up person in society?

Or, like, if you had to describe a good candidate to enter the academy, what does

[00:08:33] Bryan Davies: that person look like? Well, the, having, how do I explain this? The effort that they put in during the academy is just amazing. There's so much that goes on behind the scenes there that they have to do on their own time.

They're going to learn. Their own what they struggle with so whether it's studying the textbook whether it's memorizing bulleted items Whatever it is. They're going to you know come up against their struggles And so it's them kind of learning how to figure out how to make those weaknesses into strengths We, we can teach the skills to just about anybody but we can't teach them how to, pass the written test and things like that.

They have to put forth the effort. So somebody that comes in who has a good drive is interested in and really a lot of that comes from if you have the passion, the interest, the love I think some of it becomes pretty easy easier. But the, Coming in, and just being ready to learn and knowing that you're going to fail.

And as you fail. listening to where you failed and then wanting to like, give me another shot, like, I want to go do it. Right. We have this just the other day when we were doing search and rescue stuff. We came out of it. Chief LaCroix had some input to me as far as how I could have done my job better, and it's just like, I want to go again.

I want to, it's like, give me another shot to to do better. And so having that drive to want to do well, to succeed, to not let your crew down, stuff like that, not be the weak link, those are all going to be helpful, but honestly, at the beginning, lots of listening. And not a whole lot of dialogue, kind of back and forth.

Now that's not to say that you can't talk, but it's, when you need to clarify things, absolutely. But a lot of times it's just absorbing and just trying to mimic what you're seeing them want you to do or yeah. Anyways. I

[00:10:29] Brent Harding: think I think that's pretty. Valid and it sounds like it's more about your ability to navigate failure than it is if you fail.

Everybody's going to fail. It's a new, totally new lifestyle, new skill sets. Like there's going to be failure and there's probably going to be a lot of it, but how you navigate that is going to determine whether you're a

[00:10:45] Bryan Davies: good fit for this or not. Having a good attitude during that failure, laughing at yourself being like, yeah, I screwed up, or whatever.

You gotta, you can't take it. I mean, you want to take it serious, but at the same time having fun while you're working, I think is super valuable also. Yeah.

[00:11:01] Brent Harding: Yeah, I was certainly enjoying it. And it seems like too, that there's a difference between, like you want to take it personally. But it's because you're trying to contribute to the cause not that you are trying to look better in front of the chief or The training chief or the instructors or whatever.

So there's those people that are driven to like look good But if they're singling trying to single themselves out, those aren't a good fit either, right? But if you're driven to Push forward the cause and the work and that's the type of I think that adjusts the tone probably in how they talk and how they Listen, right if you're listening for yourself versus listening how you can be a better contributor And that changes probably the tone and everything else.

Have you ever had anybody that surprised you? Like somebody you saw come in and you're like, Ah, I don't think that guy or girl is going to make it. And then, man, they kind of... Blue, everybody's mind

[00:11:49] Bryan Davies: happens all the time. And I honestly, I try not to judge them. A lot of times it's just being their cheerleader and I'm not super involved, in the day to day stuff and haven't been for years now.

Unfortunately it's more administrative. But the. But when you visit with the students and in fact, occasionally I have to go in there and they're, you just hear the class is struggling, the class is struggling, stuff like that. And so it's going in and ultimately giving them just a little bit of a pep talk.

But but yeah, people, we'll surprise you with their abilities and and what they can do. We had a person who in four weeks needed to, cut off over five minutes on their mile and a half run, or else they weren't going to make it into the program and, they, they killed it and they had other things, other physical things that were holding them back and they just destroyed it.

You have others who. Do poorly and they continue to do poorly. And so, but I am surprised oftentimes, with struggles that people have and how they pull through it. And it's fun to see people succeed and to do well. And like I said, in the end, I'm just, I'm usually cheering them on.

I'm not picking winners and losers. It's just like. In the end, everybody has to rise up there. It's going to be hard, it's going to be a struggle and and it's trying to see, those that, encounter those struggles and then bust through them.

[00:13:11] Brent Harding: It's a great perspective especially for crews that are taking on a probie firefighters.

Is, there's those first impressions, and you have guys right out of the gate that are making assumptions. But, man, if you can just give them the benefit of the doubt, I'm just here to support this guy as much as possible. It doesn't mean you have to cut him any slack or anything like that, but, yeah, just be their cheerleader.

And even if you don't think they're going to make it, you want to be on the cheerleading side, not the cynical, other side. But, Jordan. So now this is your chance to correct everything Captain Davis

[00:13:39] Bryan Davies: has said about the RCA. Tell us what the RCA is really like.

[00:13:42] Jordan Woolley: The RCA is awesome. You'll probably get different opinions from everybody.

I enjoyed it. Yes, it's hard and it's long. I remember like I met with Captain Davies before I entered the RCA and he kind of gives you some expectations and things to prepare for. And I remember him saying, if you have a full time job. Get ready because that's hard. A lot of people can't work full time and go to class and you're trying to study and you're physically exhausted and I didn't have that option.

So I remember being like, man, he's telling me it's going to be hard if I work and everything. And, And it is hard, it's just, it's hard, but going back to what we were talking about earlier with just your attitude and your perspective and kind of just seeing that bigger picture, it's absolutely worth it.

Like, I remember being so frustrated sometimes just because I'm like, why are they doing this? It makes no sense to me. Like, I feel like I understand what we're doing, but like why? There's no why. I haven't been doing this, the job for very long, and, but even just in this short, like year and a half I've looked back and I'm like, Oh, I can totally see why, you can get frustrated sometimes with instructors and how they're treating you or sometimes your partner they're recruits and you just look at it now and it's like, yeah, you're going to, you're going to be with these people for, a third of your life, 48 hours straight.

And yeah, sometimes they're going to frustrate you. Sometimes they're going to do things and it all comes down to that respect of respecting your captain and your chief and learning how to live with people and having good communication. And at the end of the day, if you can work through those things, you're going to, you're going to be able to learn and grow and become a great firefighter.

And then going back to the academy a little bit, like, it's just a mix of everything. You're going to, you're going to be pushed physically. You're going to be pushed to calm your brain down in some of those really stressful situations when you know You're not used to having a mask on your face.

You feel like you're you can't breathe you're Restricted and everything in your movements with your turnout gear on and you're gonna learn how to calm down in those situations You're gonna learn how to study how to change your attitude and how to learn I think I learned how to learn a lot better

[00:15:38] Brent Harding: Yeah How, so during those moments where it's super hard and you can't see the full picture of why, right, and that didn't come till a year and a half later, what advice would you give to somebody that's maybe in the academy right now that's feeling that same way?

Like, man, my instructors are just jerks. They're doing it on purpose. They, and they just have a hard time, kind of reconciling how they're feeling with what it's actually doing for their career.

[00:16:01] Jordan Woolley: For sure. Yeah. I think you're gonna have those moments first of all, no matter what, sometimes it's, you get lost in the weeds a little bit, but what I would always do is go back, like you may not have the full picture, but go back and try and remember why you started.

What drove you? For some people They wanted to just fight fires. Some people really want to help people. Some people like the brotherhood, that team aspect, everybody has a different reason or what drives them or what, why did you come into the Academy in the first place? For me, it was exciting.

I love working outside with my hands. I loved helping people. I loved I always love sports. I loved working as a group, trying to accomplish a task. Like I, I had gone on a couple of ride alongs. I had the privilege of knowing a couple of people. So I had a couple, I could see kind of how it worked and.

And if you just go back and you remember why you started, you kind of have this whole new motivation again of, yeah, I want that still. I want the end. And there's going to be ups and downs, but in the end, you'll look back and you'll see that full picture again.

[00:16:55] Brent Harding: Yeah, I think that's great.

And I think that goes for your whole career, right? And which is a good little window to have that in the academy, but certainly seems like for your career as well, that if you lose sight of your why, night after night of those late night calls, frequent flyers, then you just start to lose and all of a sudden your drive to quit becomes higher than your drive to stay.

One thing Captain Davies that you said a long time ago that as always kind of stuck with me is cause I think sometimes in this job you see, the less than ideal part of society. And you can, one of those things you can lose sight of is that like, man, people are good.

Like generally people are good. Right. And once you kind of get that tainted view of society, man, it can be hard. Right. But I remember one time you're told me, as you've deployed out on like Katrina and some of these bigger disasters around the country, that it always surprised you. Or just always was a good reminder how many people actually came to help that man in those big moments Like you see the best of society not necessarily the worst and those are always good kind of little reminders for you To keep that core value of like humans are good and I don't know can you expand on that a little bit and how that's kind of played a Role throughout your career and kind of maintaining that core

[00:18:08] Bryan Davies: belief Well, I think I enjoy going out on those rare deployments when I can, because yeah, there's kind of two main things you get to see or do.

One is, every, all of us are kind of like on the bench, like put me in coach, we want to go and we want to do so when you get called up, it's like, sweet, put me in, I want to participate. But the the second thing is that when you go and you're there you realize how many things.

Thousands and thousands of other just regular citizens are doing the exact same thing and they're not being paid there. They're just doing it out of the, love for thy neighbor type of thing. Total strangers. And I mean, I can remember Help coordinating an area where our rescuers were bringing people from boats into an area.

And basically we had to take these people who were being rescued and trying to, get them places. They might live an hour across town or whatever, and, they don't have communication, all sorts of issues. And and just literally lining up hundreds and hundreds of cars with people who are just like I just want to help.

And it's like, will you help by taking this person to wherever they need to go? And they're like, yeah, and it's like, so you see these teeny little things where these people are just like, raising their hand. And it's like, if I can do anything, if I can bring you a water, if I can go get you a cookie, like whatever they just want to help out.

And so. That's always been super rewarding for me. I mean, we see all sorts of ugly in society and stuff like that, but there is also a lot of good taking place too. For example, we've had car accidents over time where. We've been short handed and, you kind of look out into the crowd occasionally and it's like, I need a couple of hands and you, you pick a couple of people and those people are, like, it doesn't matter what's going on.

They will drop whatever's going on to come, and help with it. And so, yeah, seeing the good that, that are inside of people is awesome.

[00:20:07] Brent Harding: Yeah, it's amazing on some of those scenes, how quick people are to take off their belt. Like that's like, it seems

[00:20:11] Bryan Davies: like the first thing, here, use my belt for a tourniquet.

[00:20:13] Brent Harding: We're okay, we have our own tourniquets, but thanks, man. But yeah, no, I think that's, it's good. And I don't know, and, Jordan, you can jump in on this. I just feel like if you're going to start your career off the best possible, like if you have a set of core beliefs that you just decide upfront, I'm going to hold on to these no matter what.

And it doesn't mean they can't evolve or, because of course with time and experience some of those things may evolve a little bit or deepen, right? And that's hopefully the goal is if you have this core belief that I know people are good and I'm just going to believe that no matter what. And then after experience and experience you allow that to deepen.

Versus if every time something bad happens you have to re decide if you still believe that, but I think if you can come into the career with a couple of core beliefs and just... Hang on to those for every with everything you've got. Yeah, I think that just makes everything a little bit easier.

[00:21:00] Jordan Woolley: Absolutely. I think Just having that strong line, like you said just cementing that into your brain and yeah, it's gonna change over time It can change its form but like for me I always remember something that my mom used to always say growing up and it was that She believes that most people are doing the very best they can and that's what I like to live by like And I, I believe it too.

I think most people, 99. 9% of people out there are just trying their best, and yeah, bad things happen to good people all the time. And the other thing I remember is like some, for some reason, the three of us are here, we work in this job. I couldn't tell you why sometimes why I ended up here, but for some reason we have been given the privilege.

To be there when those bad things happen like yeah, it sucks. And if you have a Religious view you're like, yeah, why is God letting this happen to people, but if you remember that like Like we have that blessing like on their worst day. We can help them, and just remember that it's so easy to like get caught up in the negative stuff sometime but just remember most people are doing their best and when their best just isn't enough that's when we get to be there To make things just a little better.

So you remember that? Cause that's, what's going to push you sometimes through those harder. Harder days. Yeah.

[00:22:10] Brent Harding: Yeah, for sure. And we talked in a couple episodes ago with Brady Hanson and we talked about the evolution of kind of the why and, but that always just stuck with me because he's like, sometimes you start because of the adrenaline and, all the chicks dig it and, but then it, that kind of grows into like, no, you start to really appreciate helping people.

And then as he progressed on through his career, you really sort of appreciate helping firefighters. And just, so it's, that's where, yeah, I think it's okay to have this kind of evolution of the why it's okay to want to do it because you love the rush and the excitement. But I think as you grow up in the fire service a little bit, if that's the only reason, well, that's going to taper off after a while, right?

But if you keep finding, reasons to be grateful and reasons to stay and reasons why you love the job, and then. Just be willing to hold on.

[00:22:55] Bryan Davies: You gotta be careful too with your why. Because, if your why is money, if your why is time off, if your why is, anyways, I get to retire soon. Those are not good whys.

They don't last. And and I've seen over the years, lots of firefighters that have put things into that and they're just unhappy, they're miserable. And in fact, there was a study that said a pay raise typically made somebody happy for about six weeks. And then after that, they were back to being frustrated again.

And and so, money and other things like that's not. A reason to do this job. Yeah. We

[00:23:31] Brent Harding: just got our July raises, so I'm riding that wave for two more weeks. . But no I think that's perfect because I, you do hear people that, from the outside looking in, it's like, oh man, what a sweet schedule four days off.

Like, or to get time off is, so easy. And my hunting is gonna, this is gonna be perfect. Which it is. Great. Which, yeah, there are perks for sure. Yeah. But if that's the only reason then. After those late night calls or after that super traumatic call. So then the schedule doesn't matter anymore or the retirement or whatever.

And it's 25 years is a long time to do something just to retire. If you're not happy with the deeper reasons. So let's kind of transition into from our, from RCA to. real life fire department first year. And Brian, maybe just what you're, what you've seen and what your advice is to somebody making that transition.

Cause one thing I think I've seen anyways, it's almost like a roller coaster. Like the RCA is so hard and you kind of have the ups and downs, but man, you graduate. You did it. You succeeded. Like you feel like a million bucks and then you get to start at a fire department right here Right back to the bottom, and it's like no one cares that you graduated the rca

[00:24:34] Bryan Davies: like whoop dee

[00:24:35] Brent Harding: doo.

Yeah, exactly Right. So how would you? Help somebody to navigate that transition because the person that comes in that seems to know it all is

[00:24:45] Bryan Davies: not a good way to start no It just when you graduate it's not over and you know really for your whole career you need to be a lifelong learner you know find social media pages and things like that articles that you enjoy And and constantly be learning when somebody graduates and starts the job, they only know a little bit, really in actuality, an example would be.

Like airbags, like, okay, we don't even touch airbags in the fire academy or the state skills. But yet when they start day one, it's like, well, that equipment is on our engines. So there's all sorts of different things as like they, they come into it and they know nothing about, and then you add into, for example, being at like a specialty station it's like, okay, well, welcome to, hazmat, welcome to technical rescue.

Welcome to being an, our firefighter, like whatever it is. There's going to be all sorts of things that they just know nothing about. There's also just the, kind of oddities of the department. So, the the programs that are used to do reports, what the reports look like, what the department is looking for, what your boss is looking for.

Anyways, there's all sorts of things that you have to learn and it comes fast. And so having that ability to. Be corrected over and over is is going to happen. It's like, well, that's great. You did it this way in the RCA, but this is how we do it here. And we struggle with that in the RCA because there's lots of different ways to do the same thing.

And, In the end, we're trying to get them their certification. So sometimes we have to teach them certain ways that that meet the state's requirements. And then the department can adjust and get them going a different direction. But at least they have a foundation to, to work on, but yeah, when they come in it is not going to be restful most of the firefighters, Monday to Friday kind of look at work as being eight to five, You know a new firefighter their work is pretty much eight to ten you know why the guys are relaxing and taking it easy and stuff like that they have a lot of catch up to do and when I say catch up, it's Okay, now there's 100 pages of policy, there's, all these protocols, all sorts of things that are going on.

And and so they have a lot to really get caught up on. In the end, they need to remember that it's like they have a certain job to do. And they need to... Learn that job and master that job. So for example, like all of the equipment on the fire engine, that's all theirs. They need to know how to operate everything on there and know as much as possible about it.

And then it's, for example, like the captain's job, as far as when to implement it and things like that. And so we all and chief Hanick has done a really good job with helping us to understand. We all have in our roles that we're in, we need to just kick butt in the role that we have, and we need to be masters of it.

And at the same time, we're all learning. We're all trying to get better at it. But that rookie comes in just trying to come up to speed and there's going to be a lot of running and sprinting going on in the end, it needs to be, a little bit of a marathon though, too, because that learning is going to extend out for a year and it's pretty hard.

But it's it can also be a lot of fun. It's a struggle sometimes to, constantly be thrown on your turnouts and be sweating and doing all sorts of drills and stuff like that. But hopefully you can also have fun with it too. Like, Oh man, I'm getting paid to. To do this stuff right now to like, and sometimes even just looking at it as like, ah, you know what, this is like a workout, and I'm just, building bigger muscles for the chicks, type of thing.

That's it's interesting

[00:28:24] Brent Harding: to say that cause I, I watch my kids play and they're like doing these play games with like military stuff or they'll pretend to be firefighters sometimes. And our last training, it's like, we're in an abandoned building, they've smoked out and we got to go rescue somebody, like, this is the ultimate play scenario, like my kids would kill

[00:28:41] Bryan Davies: to be able to like, play with this.

And I'm being

[00:28:43] Brent Harding: paid. And I'm being paid to be here. That's right. And so I think that's a great perspective to keep. But I think also it's one thing and as and I not that long into it either. I've only been with Logan three years, but my first year is just, I think it can be really easy to get overwhelmed with the amount of stuff you're supposed to know.

And it can feel like, man, I'm supposed to know every piece of equipment on this truck and I, and all my medications and all the doses and there's just so many things. What's the best way you guys have found to kind of triage that a little bit? Cause it's impossible to know everything. And especially in your first year, you're being tested on so many things.

How do you go about triaging that so that you can do it in a productive way and not just get so overwhelmed. You just get saturated with information. You can't remember anything,

[00:29:26] Bryan Davies: Well, by the way, I think it's going to be a great question for Jordan because. An example is with Jordan, we didn't really go over drugs and things like that.

And he just would come to the table, basically knowing that information. And I know some of that was with help potentially from his partners and things like that. And the things that I had to do to kind of help out were actually really minimized. Because for example I know like he would write a report and then he would have like Nikki.

Look at the report. And so Nikki would give suggestions and things like that. And then by the time it got to me, it looked pretty dang good. And so, my, my input to Jordan over the year was more on the minimal side because he came to the table with really good stuff. So I guess the question is, yeah.

How did kind of navigate some of that? Well,

[00:30:14] Jordan Woolley: thanks. I appreciate that.

[00:30:16] Bryan Davies: That's good. That's the only nice thing I'm going to say. It's on record, Jordan. We can replay that over and over again. It's okay. I have a standard of not telling him, positive things. I'll pay

[00:30:24] Jordan Woolley: for it when we go back on ship tomorrow.

It's okay. But no I think a couple things on that. First, you come in, it's your first week. And I do remember having that feeling of like, Holy crap, I'm getting paid for this. I just went through six months of

[00:30:36] Brent Harding: misery, pain to do that,

[00:30:38] Jordan Woolley: paying to go suffer and learn all this. And now I'm somewhere and I'm getting paid to do this.

And it was awesome. And then you kind of have a moment of humility because you're like, wow there's a lot, and number two it's another wave of humility when you're like, man. This is for real. These four people that I'm with are counting on me now to be successful, in the RCA, if you, if you run out of air in your building and somehow your mask gets ripped off or you don't save the victim, it's a dummy, your mask comes off, it's just fog, everybody's going to go home, but if you have that wave of humility of like, man, these people are counting on me and it's not just for fun and for learning.

Now they, yeah. They expect the best. And I think that's part of that comes in and that's part of what drove me to study and really know my stuff because I have the big fear of letting people down. I hate it always have been. I like the people please. I like obviously to succeed. I think we all do.

And so when you have that, hopefully everybody has that wave of this is for real and I need to know it because otherwise somebody could get hurt, whether that's me, my partner, right? It's humbling to realize that a lot of that's in your hands. Granted, you have a lot of help. You have a lot of people guiding you and you're never alone in the fire service, which is really nice to know that.

But yeah, that's a lot of what drove me is you take your strengths and you run with them. For me, I. Personally, I've always felt a little more confident on the fire stuff, I felt confident in my ability to pull a line to drag a victim to throw a ladder. That stuff was always a little simpler for me.

I struggled with the medical. So my my studies those late nights till the 10, 11, when I'm just in the little office room by myself we're focused a lot on reading the medical protocols. I would, I remember going to sleep the very first night and I couldn't sleep and I was like.

My mind was just rolling. I'm like what am I going to do if this happens? What am I going to do if this happens, and you're new and you're kind of freaked out and my mind is just racing. And I, you realize later that you have all that information. You just got to get it dialed down.

So, I just started really quickly just reading all the protocols, writing notes, asking, ask your partners, tons of questions. I really used that chain of command a lot. I didn't want to bug Captain Davies a lot. But you know, your partners the engineer, ask him about the engine, where they keep things, how things work, study those protocols.

And don't be afraid to just ask questions, ask a billion questions because most people want it, want you to succeed, they don't want a partner or someone on their crew. That's, it's going to let them down, so they want you to succeed. And so, especially like everybody wants you to do good.

And

[00:33:03] Brent Harding: I think your ability to be a good probie versus an annoying probie is how you ask

[00:33:08] Bryan Davies: questions, right?

[00:33:09] Brent Harding: Absolutely. Like the, at least from my experience, what you kind of see is like the more specific the question that you've actually put some thought into versus like, Hey, walk me through the engine.

Or, Hey, can you tell me versus like, Hey, what is this tool exactly? And how does it work? That's a much easier thing for somebody to jump in and help you with versus like, Hey, help me train today. Well, what do you want to do? Like, you can't put the burden on your crew to figure out

[00:33:34] Bryan Davies: your curriculum, right?

There's also lots of things you can do on your own before you potentially even ask the questions. Yeah. So, we talk about like airbags. Well, okay. You can go to Paratech's website. Yeah. Or YouTube or whatever, and look at their training videos that they have on the equipment. And then there's also going to be all sorts of videos of people using the equipment.

You can also do things on your own. It's not to say that you can't ask, but yeah, definitely a more drilled in question is better. And by the way, sometimes I, I love it because they will actually do a little bit of research. Then they start asking some questions and it's like, well, I.

I don't know the answer to that. And so then it's like, well, let's find it out, type of thing. Instead of me teaching them, what I know about it, all of a sudden they're asking a specific question about something is like, I don't know the answer to that. That's cool. That's something I don't know.

Let's figure it out. So yeah, it I think there's kind of a balance there. As far as asking people, but also knowing that you can do things on your own too. And those after hour times, those are times when you can do some of that stuff. There's also lots of things that that you just don't learn in your training, for example, that cleaning equipment the stuff just doesn't get clean on its own.

And there are times that. Jordan would receive an assignment and it's like, you have this compartment to clean, or you have this tool to clean or whatever. And, after hours at nine o'clock at night, he'd be on the workbench taking something apart and cleaning it all up and making it look nice.

And in the end, it's like we all have to, granted it was nice having a Jordan for a year to do a lot of those things for us. But we also spent a lot of years not having a probationary firefighter on our crew. And so it was like, that's us out there detailing, cleaning the fridge and, all these other things that just have to get done.

We don't have a maid, we don't have a, a bunch of those different things we have to do it. And, yeah. And I like some of those things to be clean just because the public comes to check out that stuff. They come in our station, they're looking around, they check out our vehicles, things like that.

And so again just like, we're representing the department, our equipment is, and our stations are representing the department too. And so trying to help them look nice and is all important. It's things like that in your first year that you are continuing to learn.

[00:35:54] Brent Harding: And I think it's a helpful part of the triage.

I know for me, starting with Logan, even though you, and I felt like I had the opportunity to kind of be a new guy twice, cause you come into the volunteer world right out of the Academy and I started with North Logan and everything's new and that, but after doing that for several years and then being a new guy again, after having done this for like.

10 plus years as a volunteer. I was, I knew there was elements being new, but I had no idea how different. The career world was from the volunteer, but one of the first things I was like, well, I just want to be helpful on seeing, like, I don't want to be a hindrance, even if I don't know how all this stuff works yet, I want to at least know where it is.

And by detailing the ambulance and every compartment and every, like pulling out all the stuff out of the orange box and cleaning it, then over time, like you do that every shift or whatever. Then at least when somebody says, Hey, go grab the stair chair or go grab, the vacuum splints.

Like I know where that is. I don't know how it works or there's going to be things that may mess up and how to use it. Cause I've never put one on before, but at least I know where it is. And I'm going to,

[00:36:54] Bryan Davies: which by the way, sleep is super important. Jordan talked about not being able to sleep.

One of the ways that we know how to reduce or to sleep better is to reduce stress. If you feel confident and comfortable in your job. You're going to sleep better. And and so, just kind of that year putting it, it's a grind. And, but if you put that in, it sets you up for just so much success in the future.

[00:37:18] Brent Harding: Yeah. Yeah. And I think I don't know, I think there still is that balance of. Overwhelming and pressure versus like where you can cut yourself some slack, right? Like no one's expecting you to be, like you said, an expert in any of this stuff. But, cause obviously if there's a tech rescue call, you guys are on shift.

There's going to be a lead who knows he does know all the things, right? But can you be a helpful part of that team? And when they want to set up a Z rig, even though you're not expected to do it all by yourself, like, can you be helpful in that process or. That's not the time to be asking a hundred questions, but if you're familiar with it enough, you can at least be a helpful part of it.

I think that's where, as a probationary firefighter, that's okay if that's your goal for now, right? Like, just work on that part because you don't want to overwhelm yourself so much to where it just feels like... Man, I'm never going to learn any of this, right? Because that's not a helpful mindset.

That's not going to be productive.

[00:38:09] Jordan Woolley: It's all about the baby steps, you can't just jump to, to build the Z Rig if you don't know where your pulleys are, where your rope bags are, and so I think that's a good thing to remember. Start with those baby steps, just know your toolbox.

I remember in the very beginning, that's the first thing I did, is every day I got on shift for probably the first I would walk through in every compartment on every rig at my station, which took a while. So we'd get on, we'd do our checks in the morning, everybody go upstairs, have some breakfast and I would just stay down there and I would open up every single compartment.

I'd try to memorize everything that was in there. I'd be like, okay, this one is going to have, this is the engineer's compartment, all his tools. And I'd open it up and I double checked that I got it all right, and I'd go to the next one. And that way I knew that. If someone was to ask me to go grab something in the middle of a stressful situation, I wouldn't get back to the engine of the truck and be like, where is it?

And so start with those baby steps because once you know where it is, then you can learn how to use it. And once you know how to use it, then you can start to master it, but it's going to take time.

[00:39:04] Bryan Davies: It's that type of stuff that is, that's what it takes to be successful in your probationary year is putting in that time.

And also. It's putting in the time when nobody's watching, not putting in the time, like, Hey, you see me checking this stuff, that type of thing it's going out there and really just doing it because it's the right thing to do. And to come up to speed on stuff.

And yeah, Jordan did a fantastic job with that. And the cool part is that as Jordan's learning and you start going on calls with him over and over the months go by things like that, my confidence level and what Jordan can do just goes up and up. And it's like, that he still has weaknesses.

So for example if we had a confined space rescue call, all right, Jordan's going to, He's going to be helpful, but he's not going to be super helpful. But things like that will come with time. And but yet if we go on a medical call, it's like, well, I know, he's really good at taking care of patients.

I also know that he's really good being like an assistant to the paramedic. As far as getting them the equipment that they need, because he's familiar with it being able to assist with procedures, things like that. When they say, Hey, this is what we need done. We need an IO or whatever. It's like.

He's competent and capable of doing it. And. You don't just, you can't just wish those things to happen. You have to physically put in the time and the effort to make it happen. I, I remember chief Thompson. I mean, there's a reason why chief Thompson is where he's at right now, but when he was on my crew years ago we didn't have policies on an app.

It was all in a booklet. And anyways. Just over time, he was just constantly knowing the EMS policies. And I asked him, like, how do you know that so well? And he's like, every night before I go to bed, he's like, I read a protocol. And it's like, as simple as that is, he made that, something that was important to him and just did it.

And it showed because he was so well versed with the protocols. But yeah, you have to physically, put, set aside some time to, to do that stuff. I

[00:41:08] Brent Harding: think that's a great example too, of like, you don't have to come up with a lot of, like all the groundwork's there, like. Just by doing a good truck check, right, you're going to learn where stuff's at.

You don't have to come up with all these new ways to learn, but you know, as a new guy, you shouldn't be the first one done with a truck check and waiting on other people. That's a bad sign, right? You should always be the last one because you're thoroughly going through. And so it's, yeah, I think sometimes we feel like, oh, I got to.

Come up with all these new strategies on to learn. And the reality is no, just do your job. Well, like everything's already laid out. If you just do it thorough. You're going to learn it. And I think that's one thing that stood out to me over time is you're doing these truck checks and just feels like, man, I never remember, like I didn't, I did this last week for a couple hours and I, and this week I'm still trying to figure it out.

But man, I feel like once you get that year and a half, two years behind you now, it almost just feels like, yeah, I know exactly where the bandages are, obviously. Right. But it took like that muscle memory of doing good truck checks for a long time before now it's just.

[00:42:09] Bryan Davies: easier to by the way, then you start getting into the boredom phase and you have to figure out how do I do a good vehicle check without just assuming that everything's where it's supposed to be.

And so you'll have different kinds of struggles throughout your career as far as As something as simple as the vehicle check, do I just paper whip this and it's like, yeah, it's probably just fine. Or do I actually put some effort into it and just make sure it's okay. The one thing that, I don't like and I've experienced it over the years is, you think that something's there and then you actually get on the call.

And it's not, and you have nobody to blame but yourself and and that kind of beats you up. And it's like, I don't want that to happen again, or I want to try and minimize that. But by the way, going back to, Jordan would show up early to work. And and one of two things would start he would either if the vehicle was dirty, boom, he would be washing it.

And if the vehicle was clean, then he was right into his vehicle checks and. Again, we don't want to do things so that people see us, but the other crews are noticing this stuff and, in the end, during your probationary time, you're also trying to be accepted into this family and your work ethic and your attitude will.

We'll make it a lot easier for that family to kind of accept you in. You're trying to prove yourself and the more naturally you can do that the better. But sometimes you even have to, do things you don't want to do. So for example, like in the morning, it's like you get to work and it's like, I don't want to wash this vehicle.

You just do it because that's what we do. And and so, there's lots of little things like that to, to kind of help you to be successful when you're new. And I think it comes back to

[00:43:53] Brent Harding: that core belief system too, right? Like if you truly believe in serving your brothers and sisters on the fire department, it's not about washing the vehicle anymore.

I'm making the job easier for everybody else. I'm doing this for them. I'm not doing it for, The chief to have a shiny vehicle to parade around, like that's not a bad reason either. You want to help the chief, but if you always have that deeper reason, it's like, no I'm doing this for my family.

Like then it doesn't matter what the task is, right? Like it's bigger than whatever that moment is.

[00:44:24] Bryan Davies: We're all going to struggle with some of those though, because for example, I laugh when we're going off shift, some of these guys will go out and start cleaning the vehicle for the next crew. And I laugh internally that it's like, ah, I don't want to, it's like, I just got 20 more minutes, and then I can move on with other things and it's like, they're out there, happily washing the rig and it's like, all right, it's the right thing to do, like I need to go do that.

I need to go join in. And and so, as we, we encourage them to do things with us. And at the same time, they're kind of encouraging us to do the right thing also. And so I love it. Even the guy that's only been there for two months can still help me to make good decisions.

And when he goes out and starts washing the rig, it's like, what's the right thing to do, grab a brush and join in and and so. So, we, even as old people need those little, prods to to go do

[00:45:14] Jordan Woolley: the right thing. You got to kind of just get over that embarrassment of being, I don't want to say like goody two shoes, but like as a probie that's what you're supposed to be, right.

You're supposed to. To take that extra time, you're supposed to make sure those rigs are clean, make sure your saws are clean, you want to make sure everything's orderly, that you're, running to get the door, running to answer the phone, that you're up before everyone, and emptying the dishwasher, like, you don't want, you gotta lose your pride a little bit there for a minute, and, I remember my, same thing, the very first night, first full time shift, we went on a call, and, Since it was the first night I got it.

I was on the engine that very first night because I was an extra person and we were going to back into the station and I couldn't get my like seatbelt undone. I wasn't ready and Captain Perry got out before me. He started backing and backing the engine in and afterwards they came up to me Okay, this is real now like you jump out there and start backing them up You know don't let your captain get out and I remember feeling a little embarrassed to get out Like I didn't want to be Oh, jumping out so quickly to get stuff done, but it was more embarrassing that I didn't do it.

It was more embarrassing that, I let them down. And so you got to lose your pride a little bit and fulfill all of those probie stereotypes. Cause if you do it and you go above and beyond and you find, one extra thing a day that you can just make a little bit better, then you're going to be successful, and everybody else is going to see it too.

And I think personally. It helps people have trust in you, if they see you working hard, and you're up before everybody already studying your protocols and the dishwasher's empty and the kitchen's clean and your rigs are clean and checks are done and everything's where it should be, you're going to have trust in your partner, they're going to have trust in you and you're only going to be better for it.

Like fulfill, that's what I'd say to all the people who are starting a job or on probation is just fulfill that stereotype. Go above and beyond with it, like, fill that role, like, you're only going to be better for it.

[00:47:01] Brent Harding: Yeah, just own it, right? Yep. This is what it is. I think you own that and then there's a period too where it's like you're being watched and you're, when you start really heavily.

At the beginning when you're starting and through your probation, but then I'd say everybody's watching you again the moment you come off probation right because now it's like, okay now we're gonna see who this guy really is He's on the stereotype,

[00:47:22] Bryan Davies: but and I tease Jordan about that all the time.

It's like do we should have kept you on probation?

[00:47:27] Brent Harding: But I think You know and I think that happens when you come off probation I think that happens anytime you like

So I served an LDS mission too and I remember being, sending that letter home. I was frustrated that we'd done all these great things in one area I was in, and every time I'd move to a new area, it's just like the congregation didn't care, or just like, didn't know how cool I was as a missionary, and my dad wrote back and he said, something you need to learn in life is people only care about the great things you do while you're among them.

And so I kind of kept that as my mantra, even for the fire service, because, all the great things you do during the academy are great in that moment, but when you move on to the next step, people are only going to care about the great things you do while you're with them. And I think if you can hold on to a mindset like that, right, where when you shift.

Or switch crews or switch shifts or whatever, every time you're in a new group now, they don't really care about what you did on your last department or while you were on, whoever's crew or whatever station, like, and even on, even for small moments with trades or overtime shifts, like, they care in that moment what you're doing while you're amongst them.

And I think If you can continue and maintain those good habits, then that goes even further. But, maybe we'll just wrap up on a couple things here. Is one Captain Davies, what advice would you give to crews that have a probationary firefighter? We've talked a lot about what the probie can do and what it takes to be a good new guy.

What are helpful things for the crews to be mindful of? To be a good support system for

[00:48:57] Bryan Davies: their new guy. I'd say stay busy between eight and five. Yeah, we want to try and get our reports done and things like that. But we also want to try and invest a lot of time into our probationary firefighter, with Jordan compared to some of the others.

We didn't physically have to do a ton of training with him. But I would say, you can watch YouTube videos. You can talk about it, but in the end you got to get out there and sweat. You gotta put some money. It's Thanksgiving. I've heard, has anybody ever trained on

[00:49:25] Brent Harding: Thanksgiving?

Of some jerk captain who made everybody train even on Thanksgiving. Yep.

[00:49:30] Bryan Davies: Well, we had an acquired structure. It was like, we're going to go. Tear the crap out of it. Who doesn't want to, be destructive on Thanksgiving. I thought that was, totally appropriate anyways. But yeah it's easy to find reasons why not to go be physical with your training.

But I would say try and get over that and go out there and put in the sets and reps and let them become comfortable with the equipment and the setup and stuff like that. So yeah, take the time to invest in that person in the end, they're going to be on that department for a lot of your years.

And the better I, and I believe this a lot that if you put in a lot of time and effort with them at the beginning and helping them to know and understand what good looks like and what's expected that the department benefits from that for a lot of years as far as just having somebody that's a harder worker that complains less, things like that.

We're all going to have. Yeah. Parts of the job that we don't like, and we have to figure out, how to How they make the best of it and I think in your probationary year, you know You kind of you learn some of that where it's like that whole term embrace the suck where it's like, you know We're doing hard stuff.

We're sweating you know, these guys are teasing me, all these things are going on and To me it's like if you can take that and learn from it and enjoy it find a way to enjoy it, too Then you have a lot of years of a happy employee and in the end, not only a happy employee, but a happy coworker, somebody that you're with somebody that's not bringing you down.

[00:51:04] Brent Harding: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's great. And then I've, what I've gathered a lot from what you've said too is kind of just like their owning, being a probie also on the fact that you also don't know everything, if they ask a question, you don't know, it's more about, you can show what a career of figuring stuff out looks like versus.

This massive knowledge base where you're expected to know the answer to everything. And I think setting that expectation for them too, that yeah, we may not know every single thing, but we're pretty dang good at figuring it out. And over a career, you get pretty fast at figuring it out on the fly.

And, so Jordan what are some things that you would. Now that you're off probation several months behind you and you can say anything you want now. So, what would you

[00:51:42] Bryan Davies: say to crews Well, we work tomorrow, so you might pay for tomorrow. No. Safe space. Thank you. Thank you. But yeah,

[00:51:48] Brent Harding: what would, like having been through it, what were some takeaways you got from your crews that you would offer to crews now that currently have a probationary firefighter?

[00:51:56] Jordan Woolley: I would, I'm, I mean, I don't know if I have much more than what Captain Davey said, but I would, I like the, to remember that your probation is such a small period of time when you look at the long 25 plus years of a career. But that being said is you can develop a lot of habits in a year. It's a long time to, to create your ruts and point a direction of how the rest of your career is going to go.

And I'm not saying you can't change. You can always. change and be better. But, I would just say, just remember that you're shaping that probationary firefighter, your attitude, I think is a big one. And I think we do a really good job at Logan fire just with good attitudes and I'd say almost everybody's normally pretty happy to be at work. And But the probie is going to notice that, he's going to notice that, look, this guy is still happy or, oh, this guy is a little salty.

So have that good attitude and remember that you're kind of molding and shaping these people even if you don't think you are. Your influence and your, the consequences of your actions have a lot more.

[00:52:55] Bryan Davies: Yeah, it's a big ripple effect. That's the

[00:52:56] Jordan Woolley: word I'm looking for. It's a bigger ripple effect than you'd think.

You, we do things all the time and you really don't know how they affect people. So think about how it's going to affect and remember that you're shaping them and you have a lot of power as to how they're going to turn out. So

[00:53:08] Brent Harding: I remember something on my with, cause as they rotate you stations and get new crew every quarter, I was just super grateful that guys were.

Allowing me to start over, sometimes you, especially brand new, you're making tons of mistakes and you just feel like an idiot all the time. And, and your first crew, I think, they, you're going to see the, almost the worst part of you because you're still figuring so many things out, but then you get your next crew.

And I was just grateful that they allowed me to start fresh and I was like, okay, this is a fresh start. I can, and then, but then after all the mistakes they made on that career, then the next crew or, and, or even if you're with a crew for a longer period of time, that I think having a crew that allows you to change and doesn't hold that first impression too much over your head.

But I think that helped me a lot to really get past some milestones where you could be more on the helpful side. But, just want to kind of wrap up with one more thing. Just any new firefighters, especially with Logan fire. I think we have a, an incredibly valuable resource in our clinicians.

And how that's all paid for and covered through the peer team and the grants and everything that they've worked hard to establish. Because I think as a new person, You have to be very careful who you complain to, and you don't want to be branded that way. And but bottling everything up necessarily isn't going to be the best thing either.

And so, I would just encourage any new person. I mean, we have all these clinicians that have zero tie to the department. They're, it's all a hundred percent confidential. If you need to do a session or two or what, or more and just have a place where you can vent about. How much of a jerk your captain is or whatever.

And then of course you are also talking to a trained professional. help you process that a little bit. They're familiar. And especially the vetted clinicians on our website, they're familiar with Logan. They've done ride alongs. They're familiar with our culture. They can help talk you down so that when you go back on shift, you're actually in a better spot to learn and be productive without having necessarily complained to your partner on the rescue about, the quarter tests or, chief LaCroix or just kidding, complain about him.

[00:55:05] Bryan Davies: Which by the way I look back and wonder. How different would my life be if I had the tools that people have now? Not only the, Anyways, I mean, I have a divorce in my background struggles with kids here and there and things like that. And it makes you wonder, like, if I had the knowledge and the ability to have somebody help me with some of those things what would be better what would have been different, I guess.

And and I know it would be because. The department is on such a good pathway with the stuff because I already see for example, I mentioned, podcast one and two, and, I was visiting with my wife about those things. And and not only that, but, encouraging her, I was wanting to do it together, but When we were watching it at work the other day, I sent her the link and I'm like, you should watch this.

This is really good. And part of that is just helping them to understand us. We don't even totally understand ourselves. And yet we're asking somebody to live with us. And it's like, well, I don't know what to tell you because I don't even understand myself. I don't understand why I come home and all of a sudden, I'm maybe don't talk a whole lot or, super hyper focused on cleaning the kitchen or whatever.

Like, I don't totally understand those things, but, together we can kind of work through this and figure it out. And so, between these podcasts, between peer support, things like that, there are so many cool little things and oftentimes I would suggest not waiting. And so when you.

Start thinking or wondering or whatever, to me, that's the time to act and not letting something go on for months and years or whatever, and then being like, oh, yeah, we need help. To me, it's like, oh, man, figure that stuff out at the very beginning. Jump into a session with therapist with your wife and just be like, you know I come home and I do this and I don't understand why and you know Allow a third party person to explain it to you to explain it to your wife and stuff like that and even potentially explain it to your kids It's like, dad has this, reaction when he gets off shift or a bad call or something like that.

And and just to me, the more you can involve your family in kind of our nuances not that I'm asking people to, change. Because of us, but to just help us all to understand each other. And so yeah I look at these these new guys, coming up and it's like, oh man, they've got so many tools that we never had.

[00:57:32] Brent Harding: Yeah. And we just hope people would take advantage of them. Right. I think from the peer team perspective, it's like, we know how helpful these things are. But you can't mandatory them, right? Because, as a EMT, you're pushing medication and you can strap somebody down, everybody's holding them down, you give them the medication, it's going to help them regardless of whether they want it or not.

It's not the same way with mental health stuff. Like, you have to choose to have it. If you don't choose to have it, it's not going to be helpful. And so, as much as we can encourage and make people see the benefits, then hopefully they can choose to take advantage of the resources and tools we have.

Right. And yeah, we hope as time goes on, that then you guys can. See the tool and it just becomes normal, that's I think the ultimate hope is while tools are new Everybody's a little you know, even physical tools on new tool on the engine. Everybody's a little hesitant, right? I've never used that tool before but I think with even these mental health tools the more They're around the more you hear about people using them.

Then it just becomes that much easier.

[00:58:31] Jordan Woolley: Yeah, I just say Especially as a new guy, and you start Seeing the crazy things that we tend to see, in this job that there's no need to be Some brave soul, I mean, I think all of us deep down we kind of have that similar personality You want to be like, oh, I didn't that didn't affect me.

That craziness is this is just fine But there's no need to be brave. You need it. You need to be able to Control yourself and be brave when the tones go off but other than that, you know reach out to someone talk to someone And that's just going to make you better off for that next call.

You'll be more prepared and you'll know how to handle those things. So definitely use those tools.

[00:59:02] Brent Harding: Yeah. And that, I think Kevin Diggs brought up your point, it bleeds over on both sides of career and home life. And so, again, we hope anybody that has questions about those resources or tools that you'd reach out to a member of the peer team, or we have our website where you can do it all privately.

You don't have to go through anybody. No one has to know, but those tools are accessible and easy to get to. So, but of course your team and anybody on the department, really, I think everybody's in a pretty good spot. They're willing to help. So I hope you'd reach out, but thanks guys for joining us today.

What a great session with two living legends of 71.

[00:59:34] Bryan Davies: Thanks for having us. It was pretty stressful. Thanks.