When Firefighters Fall: Stories of Injury, Recovery, and Brotherhood

TRANSCRIPT:

Brent: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of the Firefighter Support Podcast. We have one returning guest. He's been probably here for half the episodes, so no offense, but we're gonna skip the intro on you today. Good. But we got two other living legends with us, Aaron Walker, Taylor Cleven. So before we get into kind of our topic of the day, let's just get a brief intro on each of you.

And, and maybe Taylor, if you wanna go first, just tell us a little about your background and what got you into the fire service, how long you've been going, and where you see yourself as a chief in a couple years from

Taylor: now. Yeah, I'm not sure about that. Yeah. Like Brent said on Taylor Cleven, i've been with Logan City Fire as a firefighter paramedic for about three and a half years now. I got into the fire service because of a guy that I grew up with. He was currently a captain with Logan City. Always looked up to him, had a lot of fun adventures with him and hearing his stories and stuff.

And so I was always interested in it. From a super young age. I accidentally took a [00:01:00] welding class in high school and kinda had a little knack for it, so that's what I pursued for a little bit after high school. But after a few years of doing that, I, I realized, what I really wanted to do is be a fireman.

So went back to school for that and here I am.

Brent: Yeah. Awesome. What, so from having that build up from your childhood and being around that captain and then now being with Logan Fire. Met expectations, met unmet over.

Taylor: Yeah. No, definitely met, exceeded it's better than I could have ever imagined.

Especially like when I was working a day job as a welder and stuff, and just, I love the weld and have a real passion for it, but I just hated that lifestyle, that mundane, in and out, just working for a paycheck basically, and, stuff like that. And so when I got into the fire service and just how much more I enjoyed my life and, even my wife would say you're just so much happier now than you used to be, and stuff like that.

Yeah.

Brent: Awesome. Was there anything that surprised you about the fire service? Yeah. That you didn't[00:02:00] really?

Taylor: I like the medical stuff that's, that's not a problem. But definitely when you're getting into it, you think there's gonna be a lot more. High acuity calls and fires than what there actually is, which which is fine, we'll take those when they come, makes 'em a little bit more fun having them a little bit spread out.

Brent: Yeah, no, I think that's a, that's a common theme. If you come into it, the expectation of, the Hollywood version of what a firefighter is then you're gonna be a little bit underwhelmed. But that's certainly been a topic of some of the other episodes of just finding and keeping your drive, despite maybe the lack of some of those high acuity calls and finding meaning and purpose in some of the calls that maybe aren't as, like an a MT could handle, basically there's still meaning in those calls too.

Taylor: Critical care e mt. Yeah.

Brent: Critical Care. EMT. No. Awesome. Great to hear about your background a little bit, Mr. Walker.

Aaron: My turn

Brent: your turn. Let's,

Aaron: So I started with Logan City. In 2008, and I would dare say that my segue into the fire [00:03:00] service is probably different and more bass backwards than you can imagine.

Because my, my first love actually is agriculture on the farm. That's where I come from. And we had a, a different legend, a real legend that worked here a while ago by the name of Troy Parker. And I used to work with Troy all the time on the farm amongst other things. And he was always taken off to go to these calls, right?

And half the time I was with him and he pushed me into it. He's you're going with me, you just as well help. So I got into it more, serve the community volunteer type stuff. And that was in 1996. I certified as an EMT in 1996, and then fire the next year, and volunteered with Wellsville for a number of years, right?

And then in 2001, I left the farm and went to a Case IH dealership. And that kind of gave me a little bit of what Clev was talking about. The, the daily grind, right? You're doing the same thing. And I'm not the same nut on the same bolt, but that was a, a different job, different environment, very [00:04:00]challenging, and, and did some good things, made some good money, and had some fun doing that job for a number of years until the very early 2008 when I applied for, and went to the county as the county fire marshal and deputy chief.

But I won't even get into that whole episode of the Twilight Zone. But I knew where I wanted to be, right? And I had hired in and tested in at, you might say, the top of that realm, and, and I felt like I got jipped. Like I wanted the dirt, I wanted the calls, I wanted the streets, the even the transfers, and so after just a few not quite a year, I came to work for Logan Fire under, then mark me, chief me, and and that's when the light bulb turned on, i, I enjoyed my time on the trucks thoroughly, and and I think it was I was in paramedic school when I wrecked, which is why we're here to probably talk.

So that's when things changed in 2015 for me. But I thoroughly enjoyed generally speaking, my time in the fire service and always [00:05:00] enjoyed my time with the city.

Brent: Yeah. That's awesome. What so be, having been, been around it, like responding with Troy and, and then volunteering with Wellsville, some people when they get around it, they definitely learn.

It's not for them. What was it for you that like, when you saw it or around it or got to be a part of it, you're like, this is it. I have to be here,

Aaron: It for me, it was the calls where you went to class, right? And they taught you a whole bunch of stuff, but when you were on the street and something worked for you, or you saw something make a difference, or you took a set of vitals and went, wow, this one doesn't sound right.

That's when I started, I enjoyed the medical side, that's, that's, that's, and, and that's what I did first. So it was seeing something that made a difference for somebody that, that kind of got my attention,

Brent: yeah. Awesome. So let's so yeah, we're here today talk about what you three have in common which is having an injury that keeps you out of the fire service for a period of time.

And how [00:06:00] you have handled that and what impacts that it had on you and that maybe you didn't necessarily see coming. And aaron, we're already going, but tell us and you, you don't have to give us any more details than you want to, but just what happened and, and a little bit of your journey through all that.

Aaron: I don't even know where to start. I actually started before, so I, the big wreck, was in 2015. But in 2012, I was on a medical call with captain Bob Goodwin. And I'm trying to remember who else was there Bingham and somebody else. And I hurt my back. I had a back injury. We were taking this lady through one of the, it was a super old house with narrow doorways between the rooms, and we had four corners on the backboard, and somebody shifted just wrong. And I, I was bent in the wrong way and it hit my back and I was out for a long time on light duty and, and didn't have any surgeries or anything like that. But it's interesting because that experience is what really made me enjoy.

Coming back to work and really appreciating, not knowing what [00:07:00] the future held. Up until 2015 when I got in that wreck out of the light in Wellsville, which to this day I still don't remember crazy story all the way around because I was actually going to take one of my finals for the paramedic program through Weber State at the time.

I was in my own personal truck and I had taken, as I remember, I had worked Sunday and took Monday off. Monday was final day, right? So I took it off, took my daughter to school, did a few things, studied. Troy Parker, again, always teases me 'cause he tried to heckle me to come into the shop, up to his place and study before I went and took this test.

Mm. He said, you should have came to study. You would've gotten that wreck. But anyway, I was going to take my test and gotten head on at the light in Wellsville. And that's a whole nother realm. But I don't remember it. There are so many bits and pieces that, that come into play with that whole thing that happened in the ensuing months and actually years.

That rec, I was pretty much off work zero weight bearing on both legs for I think it was like three months or [00:08:00] some crazy thing, and then another three months where I wasn't able to come in here. I, I had exhausted all of everything, right? And, and a lot of guys, which by the way, who you are helped me out, but very humbling, right?

To help me get along as far as I could go. And then I came back in on light duty and, and things just changed from there. But five years, eight surgeries, I, I zeroed out my pl and my STL multiple times in that time. And I think the last one was in like 20. 20, 20 20 or 2019 was my last, I did the tibial nail, which I like to sit with my leg over my other leg because that's, drives me nuts.

Anyway, so I don't know.

Brent: Yeah, no, and I, I just starting with one point that I'm glad you brought up 'cause I think it's pretty unique to the fire service that when you're out on an injury or whatever for that long, that the, your coworkers can jump in and help in that situation where I don't know of, of [00:09:00] very many other jobs where if you're like, I'm gonna be gone for six months to a year, whatever, that your coworkers could fill in for you and enable you to keep your job.

Like that just seems pretty unique. And I dunno, maybe take a one of you guys take a stab at explaining that and why, and, and, and both sides of it. 'cause I think there's some gratitude obviously, but then, is there other feelings of that come along with that as well when you fight everybody's.

Coming out to, out of the woodwork to help you.

Taylor: Yeah. So I guess I'll I'll share a little bit about myself. Three years ago I was on probation at the city and got in a really weird dirt biking accident, totally my fault, out recreating and stuff like that up in the mountains with another firefighter that works here.

And, we all like to tease him that it's his fault. Anybody that hangs out with him gets hurt. But now it's, he's just, yeah, he's a common denominator, but got in a weird accident and ended up breaking my leg pretty severely required surgery the next day after it happened, and then I had to have a [00:10:00]secondary surgery a few months later to pull some of the old hardware out and correct some things. And I was out for a few months with that. And I was in a really weird position. I remember sitting on the trail in the mountains and stuff and just being like, I guess I'm gonna have to go back to my old welding job, they'll take me back hopefully.

But just because, I was on probation, my job wasn't protected and fortunately, like big shout out to chief and Chief Thompson, they really looked out for me and had to pull some strings and make things work. And what they did was actually a little bit abnormal.

I used all my time off, which at the time, being brand new, I had hardly any. And they had to create a pool for people to donate time off to. And if you're a city employee that's in, you can have, essentially the pool goes out to all Logan City employees. Not just, the fire, the firefighters and stuff, and who can donate to this person.

And since I wasn't, past my year of probation, they couldn't do that. So they just put it out to the department. And in total I had over, 500 hours of time [00:11:00] donated to me by, so many, so many different people. And really I don't even know who all did it, and fortunately I didn't use that much time, but.

They, they really stuck their necks out for me and really made me feel included and like I, they wanted me there and stuff like that. And that was the most, one of the most powerful things from that experience was just that brotherhood, and sisterhood too, and of everybody coming out and supporting each other and supporting me, specifically.

And I've always tried to make it a point in the future that if, another firefighter goes through some type of hardship, I'll try to be there for him as best as I can. But yeah, it was pretty amazing.

Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. Can I just say, add something there? It's, it's, as I've been thinking.

About your question. I remember sitting at A-P-F-F-U conference and one of the speakers brought up this really interesting point that was like, we spend the majority of our, a third of our lives helping complete strangers. We'll go out there and it's the mantra is we risk a lot to save a lot, so somebody's life is on the line.

[00:12:00] We're gonna put our lives on the line to go help that person. And back to your, back to your question, it's. It's interesting when you do that and you, you're just like so willing to help strangers to people who, who you'll probably, you may or may not ever see again. Hopefully you never see 'em again, especially at work.

But then when one of your own is in a situation that, that they need you I just remember what this guy said and he said, Hey, we, we gotta, we gotta fight for strangers, but we die for each other. We we gotta look out for, for, for our own. And I think when, you, you're in this profession where you go through all this training to, to basically help people in time of need.

And then you see oh, like I can immediately help this person just by giving up some time. Or just by working a trade or just by doing something like that. That's. Your brother or your sister that's, that's helping somebody. That's how we're going to, answer our, our friends, our, our [00:13:00] partner on the rescue.

That's how we're gonna answer their 9 1 1 call. And it's just, it, it's something that I think, again, it's super unique. Again, I work for corporate America for 15 years and if somebody ever ran out of PL or STL or they, they basically just said, okay, resign and then when you're ready to come back to work, apply and we'll hire you again.

Not like here's all this extra time that all of your coworkers are willing to give you.

Brent: Yeah. That's pretty amazing. I love what you said though, the fight, we fight for the patient, the nine one one call and die for each other. And it's I think, it's hard to be on the side of being the one being helped.

But man, it's awesome to be part of and the spectator to witnessing. That take place, when somebody needs help and you see everybody come together, like it's just a good reminder of kind of what we're a part of. But I do, I do want to touch for a minute on why it is hard to be the one [00:14:00] being helped and, and 'cause, and I think especially in our, in our world where you are the helper, you are the guy and you're willing to do anything for anybody, but it's so hard to be the one in the seat where you're the patient or you're the victim or you're the, the guy that needs, you can't do it by yourself right now.

And, and you need, and, and it doesn't speak just to physical injury, but I think the mental health world is the exact same way. It's just hard to be the one receiving help. And I haven't I've been pretty lucky to stay outta the hospital for pretty much all my life. Mm-hmm. So I don't, I don't have that perspective that you guys do, but I'm interested in, in kind of what now, especially looking back on, on some of your experiences.

If you had to explain to somebody else right now that's gone through an injury and help 'em feel better about being the one being helped, what would be some of your, your takeaways for '

Tyler: em? I got a tip. Just suffer a brain injury and then you don't remember any of the help they get. Then you get stories about people bringing you food [00:15:00] to the hospital and you take one bite and you're like, oh, I'm gonna throw up.

And you have, you have this like weird vivid memory of we'll say a guy named Rent BARTing holding you up and your wife's holding a not a catheter holding a. A urinal up so you could pee in the middle of the ICU. Yeah, if you have a brain injury, you don't remember most of the things that people do for you, and then eventually they come and they talk to you and you're like, oh, yeah, cool.

Yeah, that's, that's right. I'm sure I would've felt really, I, you would feel accepted and you'd feel supported and things like that. But then again, you have that double-edged sword where you're like, man, I can't do anything for these people right now. I think it's what Cleven talked about, but eventually when the time comes, I'm gonna help these people who stuck by me, who did unmentionable things to help me.

Just to even go to the bathroom in the hospital. So

Brent: we never really got your injury story. Mm. But maybe you can just walk [00:16:00] us through, just give a little background and in as much detail as, as you do or don't want to, but just enough to help people appreciate what happened and, yeah. And what you were going through.

Tyler: Happened I had just taken, I don't remember, probably four or five days afterwards. And then even up into the accident, it was a little hazy, and that's come over time. But I remember I went to paramedic school. It was a lab day, it was a midterm, and I was with Cleven. We took our, our midterms.

I couldn't tell you what the skills were. After class. I vaguely remember calling Aaron and driving up to the station. And then after that this has all been told to me, but when I got to the station, I was on the phone with Aaron and my wife and a structure fire came out. I said, Hey, David, sorry, I gotta go.

It was Wednesday. So we normally drive down to Wednesday and spend some time with [00:17:00] my two older children who live in Ogden. She's okay, I'll just, call you when I'm heading back from Ogden. Hang up the phone. Then we go out to the rescue. I don't know why the engine wasn't there, because normally we'd put all of our clo all of our gear on and then jump on the engine.

But there were three of us. They had the driver of the passenger, myself. Somebody was there that was covering me while I was at paramedic school, and there was no way they were gonna leave for a working structure fire. So all jumped in the rescue and while we were in route to the structure fire, we got in a traffic accident.

We were going through a light. And one of the drivers didn't see us, started to turn left instead of KO and the driver, we, our driver of, of the, of the rescue did some evasive maneuvers and ended up, we went head on to a traffic signal. Ah, after that kind of what I heard is they came to the driver and the, the passenger, they get [00:18:00] out and, and then they remember oh, hey, there's three of us.

So the passenger tries to get his, his hands to work, tries to get like enough bearing to open up the back door. And when he, when he saw me, I was mostly unconscious. I don't know. But his heart just sank 'cause I was just in a crumple deep on the floor. They ended up getting a, another rescue from a different city took me to the hospital.

I spent. A while in the ICU and then spent some time on med-surg. I ended up with a moderate TBI, I had some lung contusions. I broke my shoulder. My, my scapula, my shoulder blade. Fun fact, only 1% of the people in the world break that. Usually when that happens, they break their neck and, have other problems.

But yeah. And then after that was just survival mode. Trying to recover, trying to really trying to get my, my brain to come [00:19:00] back to what it was. The bar was really low to begin with, just a caveman. But now I'm a brain dead caveman or a brain damaged caveman. And again, when I was in paramedic school and I had one goal and that was to beat Cleven and I knew it was gonna be a stretch.

Even without any injury and then just rode his coattails. He cleon my, my man. He was one of the reasons why I ended up doing what I did. 'cause every day I'd see in class, or if I wasn't there, he'd fill me in. He'd teach me all this stuff that I needed to know to be a paramedic,

Brent: minus that 1%. You needed to beat him.

Taylor: He just held that over. I'd like to point out to the audience, he's, he's the type of guy, he hit his head and became a savant. You know how the people that learned to do math and play the piano that've never done it? That was Zoom.

Tyler: I did spray you in the face with et loom. It wasn't the

Taylor: face. It was the eye.

In

Tyler: the eye.

Aaron: Okay. In the eye.

Tyler: So it can't be that good,

Aaron: I think by nature like. [00:20:00] In this industry, we're pretty independent people, right? Type a's you know, we have it in our mind, in our minds. Here's how we're gonna do this and this and this, and I'm gonna help this and do that. And it's a humbling thing, to be forced to have to have help with everything and everything you do.

It was unbelievable. Like I learned the hard way. I should have just learned the easy way because I, I, I couldn't do anything there for a while. Complete chest ca chest, cast both legs, they'll let you fill in the blanks, but it's something else to, to be humbled like that and it gives you a whole different perspective, having been there to help other people and say, oh man, I get it.

You may not believe it, but I get it.

Brent: But. Do you feel like it's, it's increased your, your empathy then for like, when you see Yeah, it's yeah.

Aaron: Yeah. In fact, it's funny because a number of months or years, I'm sure after, [00:21:00] after my accident, right? We ran short on people. Like everybody was out and I was the only one left.

And I'm trying to remember who was down there. It was a a crash on 10th West there, a couple of kids in a, in a car that ended up going into the side of a semi-truck down there. And long story short, I was all that was left and they asked me to bring a rescue down. Now you're gonna edit, edit this, I assume.

'cause I still had a walking boot on and I hopped in the red in one of the back line ambulances and zipped out there, and they gave me a cardiac monitor and said, go check this gal over on the, on the grass. And she, she had a, a bit of a leg injury and I got emotional. I was like, I've been you. Like this sucks.

It was weird. It was almost surreal besides the fact that it was hard to even function, but yeah, having a clear understanding of that doesn't come easy, oftentimes it should, we should, work at, at having that understanding and that empathy, like you say, but you want a true understanding, yeah. [00:22:00]Experience something like what, what some of us and others have been through.

Brent: Yeah. I think it's one of those things where if you ask any paramedic, any EMT hey, do you understand your patient? Everybody's gonna say yes. I understand the medical side of what they're doing, I understand what's gonna help.

But then a different way to ask that question is, does your patient feel understood? And it's just a different way, but that lady seeing you walk up with the, the walking boot, like that's just one of those things she knew, you knew exactly how she was feeling. And, but it just gives you this whole deeper level right, of empathy that you just can't get through reading a textbook or, or being a spectator to.

But once you've been through it it's a pretty, and maybe a funny way to put it, but it's an amazing gift that you now have that no one else does that you can't replicate without actually having gone through it. Yeah.

Taylor: I think I think for me, my experience might be a little bit different.

'Cause after I broke my leg, I got rid of the dirt bike 'cause I'm like, nah man, I can't get hurt [00:23:00]again. I'm like, so I got a mountain bike and I'm like, what's the worst that could happen? And as I want to do, I just push things a little bit too far. Got in a really bad, mountain bike accident a year later.

Broke my back in several spots and both of my injuries, but more so at the back. I think the resistance in wanting help was like, but like we've touched, I think we're all type A personalities, exact, like type one personalities or whatever, and we're always the one helping people, feeling like we're in control of the situation.

And so it's like this sense of loss of, you're losing control when you're the one that's being helped, it's out of your hands now you're losing control. And I think for guys like us, that's a scary feeling. But for me, I felt this so much guilt. Like sick to my stomach. So much guilt for the things that I had done and about how my actions had affected other people, and 'cause they always talked about how like when you get hurt, you ruin third slot, third slot being the third vacation slot. And so you're taking away people's ability to have vacation, right? To use [00:24:00] their vacation that they've worked so hard to accrue. And on top of that, maybe you have to have the hours and so then you're taking hours from people.

And it was, I felt so guilty for what I had done and because of, my own actions, the decisions that I had made, or essentially, forcing people not to be able to take time off and not necessarily forcing people to help me. I know nobody would help me unless they absolutely wanted to.

And we're so lucky to have such a great culture where we work that so many people are so willing. But, but it was just like this sickening feeling that I had every single day and every single night. And on top of that, we always tease each other, right? Just for fun. And it really does come from a place of love.

And it, it does, it does come from a place of love. But man, sometimes some of those jokes that people would make for me, towards me. It just, it cuts so deep. And I tried not to let it show, but it just, it, it would bother me to my core 'cause I already felt so guilty for being hurt and stuff like that.

Brent: You trying to tell me, firefighters aren't very sensitive around [00:25:00] like certain topics, yeah. They

Aaron: might be, but you'll never know it.

Brent: Yeah, no, I, I think and I, I, I'm glad you shared that 'cause I think the odds and, I guess I never say never, right? But I'd feel like the odds of your guys' injuries are probably a little more rare, but the odds of somebody getting hurt just out doing what they love on their four days off is probably gonna be the more common injury in the fire service.

Especially maybe around where we live where there's so many opportunities to snowmobile and, and mountain bike and all those things. And but what's, now that, that you're beyond that. Like you can't live that way forever. You can't live in guilt and shame forever. And you also can't just shelter yourself.

Is that, is that the expectation that firefighters on their four days off? You don't do anything that might. Inherit a little extra risk. Is that, is that the answer? I don't think so. But have you gained some more insight now being, a little bit past, past that phase on how to handle, [00:26:00] or if somebody else is out there recreating, and kind of your, your perspective on that?

Taylor: I think, the worst critic is always gonna be ourselves, right? So nobody cares as much, about what we think as we do. And, I, I don't. No, if necessarily people felt that way towards me or criticize me as much as I criticize myself. Because certainly when, since then, other guys have been injured and stuff like that.

And I've never once thought those things about them. People should be able to go out there and have fun and accidents just happen, and certainly since that, that time I've taken steps to try to minimize those accidents as much as possible. But I've just been injury prone my entire life.

I'm just a bull in a China shop a little bit. But,

Aaron: I gotta add I am that conservative person. This is the ironic part. Like I do, I always have been ask my girls, they wasn't able to do anything that had any risk at all, ever, right? Mm-hmm. I was that hover parent, oh, don't do this.

This'll happen. Don't do this. That'll happen. I rode dirt bikes. The only time I had a helmet on was when [00:27:00] I wrecked. Ironically I did a lot of those crazy things, but I was the reserve person. I wasn't the one making the high mark on the hill, right? And I still had stuff happen. You can't live like that, nor can you, and we will, but can you carry that kind of guilt like that inside you can say, gosh, here I am again. Geez, I've already done this once. These people are stepping up and helping me. And then it sucks. I know. Been there, done that kind of thing. But you can only be so reserved.

You gotta live your life. You gotta be happy. And part of being happy away from here is doing the things you like with your family. And, and it is what it is. If, if, if you're a, a, a good reputable coworker and person and things happen, they're coming to your help, which everybody at Logan is.

That's one thing I've noticed. And it's a different, completely different group now, right? Than it was when I wrecked the exact same thing is, is in place may, it makes me emotional. It's incredible to watch. It really is. I I can, couldn't agree more.

Tyler: After things have started to [00:28:00] settle down? My wife and I were just talking about all the help that we received about everything that had happened, and she's how would you like being a firefighter at Logan City?

Because you can't go anywhere else. Like with the, with the amount of support that we received from my quote unquote coworkers. You can't even label it that 'cause it's just so much more, and yeah, she's you can't go anywhere and I won't let you because there I can't. I, again, I, I couldn't even, if I tried to make a list, I'd probably come up with 10% of the people that helped me.

And the, and the situations that people were there, not only physically emotionally, there were countless wives that were constantly talking to my wife. They're best friends now. There were people talking to my kids. Wait, I had, in my accident, one of the, the gentleman that was in there he and his wife took [00:29:00] my, took my kids for a day because, you're sitting in this dark room and you gotta be away from all sensory experience and that is the complete opposite of having children.

So they just showed up and said, Hey, we got these. My, my wife was able to shower, breathe, not have to worry about anything that was going on with me. She just was able to take care of herself. And that's just, it is amazing. And it's interesting 'cause again, we don't like it, but we definitely appreciate it, especially in the long run.

When you think about all the stuff that people did for you.

Brent: I heard a, a saying that I really liked, but and a lot of these. Cases where something bad happens, or, a big amount of suffering or a big challenge comes, you don't choose what, you can't choose what happens to you, right? But you do have to choose what happens next. And one of the things they pointed out was giving yourself space and time [00:30:00] to create that space to decide what's gonna happen next.

I think sometimes as firefighters we, like going back to what you were saying about control, like there's no time for space. Like you gotta, this happened, I need to do something right now to make myself feel better or to get out of this situation. But just this idea of give yourself some space.

You normalize the feelings of guilt and shame. 'cause those are normal. You can't live there, but it's normal to have 'em. And it's not weird. You're not the only person in the world that's ever felt guilty about whatever you're going through. Like it's a normal human. Reaction, right? But then creating that space to where you can make an informed decision on what's gonna happen next versus trying to make it too quickly maybe based off of, some poor storylines that you've come up with or, or whatever.

Do you guys looking back on, on injuries, do you kinda see, it's hard in the moment to like, plan it out and be like, okay, I'm gonna create this space now. But looking back, do you kinda see how that maybe played a role [00:31:00] in, in having some time and space to choose what am I gonna do about this moving forward?

Or how's it gonna, change the way, like the type of person I am?

Tyler: Yeah. I. I have a pretty distinct memory. I, I went to a follow-up doctor's appointment with a concussion specialist and in the same day they were looking at my arm or my shoulder that I wrecked. And, we were talking about, here's some things you could look out for and we, we are not a hundred percent sure what you're gonna get back or what you're gonna have left or whatever.

And then my wife and I, we, we drove home and I was again sitting in the shower and all the lights had to be off. There's no fans in there, so you could just hear this voice and it was my voice just screaming in my head. And it was funny 'cause I was just having some good self-talk, took a couple deep breaths, and I, at the time I was in paramedic school.

Oh. [00:32:00] We had a lot going on and I just said, I'm gonna take this one day at a time and I know that I'm going to. Regardless of, what my limitations are be are gonna be I'm gonna stay doing the job that I love and I'm gonna finish paramedic school. And I, I would just go back to that, that thought process, that, that feeling.

Anytime that I had doubts, anytime that I would go to school and, I don't even remember half of what happened that day because my head hurt and we had to take a test and I, I could barely write stuff down because my dang hand wouldn't listen to my brain. And, I just take a deep breath and close my eyes and block out all the sound and try to think about like where I was when I made that commitment, that I'm gonna continue to do what I'm doing and I'm gonna make it through paramedic school.

Brent: Yeah, that's awesome. To have that fallback and, and I think sometimes in a recovery, the expectation and, and the desires for it to be linear, [00:33:00] right? Every day is gonna be better than the next. In reality, it's probably looks a lot more like this. You have a good day and then it's damnit, I'm right back down to where I felt a week ago or, or whatever, is that accurate for, is that a common denominator amongst, amongst the three? Yeah.

Aaron: Agreed. Which is a side note, you're a rockstar. Mm-hmm. I'm just gonna tell you straight up to be able to, to go through what you went through and be able to power through that finishing school. Like I'm a, I'm, I'm a Ws, I tapped,

Tyler: I wasn't in a full body cast, so I was out.

You're definitely not a Ws I'll

Aaron: tell you, you struck a chord with me a little bit because it's hard to put words into the thought process. That, that sometimes you have to go through I'm sure you went there yourself and okay, what's the future hold? What, what's this gonna look like?

What the heck am I gonna do next? Because I was three months before I even had my eyes headed in the same direction. Oh, sure. And by the time I got back to, to the station class was over, that that ship had sailed, [00:34:00] and, and everybody made every effort to try and help me get there.

But I, I, I understand when you say sit in a dark room and listen to absolutely nothing, that's a real deal. And I did, I was under this weird, like solitary confinement, almost, like just shy of being in the bouncy room, it, it was something else. And the thought process that I had to go through with sitting there reflecting backwards, like that was my biggest problem, is I kept looking in the rear view mirror.

Mm-hmm. When I finally got to where I could go to work every day, went to light duty, I sat in the BC office there with that window that looks out in the bay. Watch those guys slide that pole and hop them trucks and run off. Mm-hmm. And you sit there and sometimes it's everybody, but you and Becky hit the time and that sucks.

Mm-hmm. I love that. And with each passing call, it seemed like it got a little further and a little further. And I'd go through these spurts where, you know what? I'm gonna fight my way back. And then we'd go for another surgery and the doc would say, if we can get you to where you can walk, you're not getting back on those trucks.

[00:35:00] I that was a tough pill to swallow, and thank goodness there was some other things that fell into place that allowed me to continue my career with Logan, which I was bitter about for about five years. I hated the world, it, it sucked. It was tough. Asked my wife, but I'm, I've finally accepted it after the last, surgery, if something happened, and I finally just accepted it for what it is, and said, okay, I'm over in this lane now. I'm no longer in this lane, besides the fact that I'm completely out of place in this lane now. Like it was a different world 10 years ago. It really was, as far as the training and stuff, I couldn't keep up with you guys if I had to.

There's no way. It's incredible. The environment of the 48 96 and the guys, and the training and the, and the calls, it's incredible. But it's not my life anymore. So I had to move over to this lane and invest myself in this other lane and try and do the very best that I can and, and make it so I can enjoy it.

And I've finally got there the last couple years, it's been good. Thank goodness for Craig and John and everybody else. It's that's a, that's a tough one, [00:36:00]

Brent: but do you feel like you had to get yourself outta that, that funk of getting to the point where you could just accept it or do you feel like it was an outside influence that kind of helped you cross that?

Yeah,

Aaron: a little bit of both, but I had to dig myself out there and quit allowing myself to, to go there, which is hard to do even now, it's hard to do. It sucks, but I was very impressed. Mm-hmm. Very impressed to go through what you went through. That's what I was getting at, was to be able to power through and do that, and maybe someday I'll do mine just for the sake of, of getting it done, but it's not, I, I, I not now, not in this. I'm where I need to be. It's okay.

Taylor: Unlike these guys, I don't think I deal with things very healthily. Mentally speaking. So I just sheer just will and try not to let the bad thoughts creep in is how I got through it, but kinda like Aaron's story going to the old station 70 and looking at that window that points out to the bay and seeing the guys leave, I felt a lot, a lot that way too.

But one of the other people that I would see at Station 70 was Aaron. [00:37:00] So his in, injuries led him to be, in the fire marshal's office. And I just wanted to say like how great it was. There was a ton of people who were so supportive. The department as a whole, the chiefs, Tyler, one of my best friends, all these people.

I could always count on seeing Aaron there every day and just the friendship that we were able to develop and, talking about trucks or cars or, whatever else. And just, he always had a good attitude and a smiley face. And no, it was just awesome. For me. What helped me get back, was the people.

For sure. It was the people that helped me. I, I don't want to, I didn't do it by myself at all. It was the sheer will and the, the positive of attitudes of those people that were encouraging me to come back is what got me back.

Brent: Yeah. And I think you were a big part of Tyler's story too.

'cause I remember being in the ER after we were done with the structure fire. But you were there and I remember you came in the room and the first thing I heard you say was like, oh my gosh, it's the same room I was in. And, but just that immediate connection, of just [00:38:00] again, you knew exactly what he was going through in that moment and just being able to be there for these guys through their, their injury.

And that

Tyler: was pretty, I don't know if you remember this, but, okay. First admin. We can all agree that reassignment a k light duty is a trap. They tell you it's gonna be so much fun, but it's a trap. They tell you like, oh yeah, it's fine. You're in paramedic school. I'll teach you cardiology. So if you missed your whole lecture, they didn't.

No. Love those guys. Yeah, exactly. But actually one day I was sitting in the assistant chief's office and a captain came in and he was like, oh, hey, you're on light duty. We, we need to get to the grocery store and I don't think we're gonna have time to do it. And so here's a grocery list.

And he just starts rattling all this stuff and he walked by and we made. Eye contact and you kinda stopped, took a couple steps and then you walked back up and you're like, Hey Tyler, we gotta go, we gotta go on this fire inspection. Let's let's go check this thing out. And I was like, oh yeah, totally.

The fire inspection, sorry, I can't, can't help you. We got, [00:39:00] I told him I would go do that and then we went and we checked out this, this, that the church that's right there has all this wheat stained glass. And I was just like, Aaron's a man. Like this guy's, he's a man. The man, he's looking out

Aaron: for a brother grocery shopping saying, that's not acceptable.

That's pushing it. Yeah. That was the best. Yeah. No, people don't realize that the prevention bureaus are very healing place, usually cuts people's recovery time in half. He's incredible. I'm afraid if word gets out broad, he's gonna send all injured employees to the, they're gonna get back to work that much quicker.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, but it I'll tell you, it's actually been healing. This is really odd. Because it's, it's helpful to me. To see people go back, come through the bureau, do their thing, and it usually, honestly, let's, yeah, we do a few things. I watch for the grocery shopping list, and then we have important things to do.

You're doing stuff for everybody. But it's, it's been helpful to me to a one by one, see everybody be able to make it back out there, that makes me happy. It does [00:40:00]

Brent: well, and it just speaks to your character because I think, in a lot of these situations, it's can be very easy to fall into a trap of, of selfishness and just me, me, me and why me and, and all these things.

But then to be able to see others around you that. Need your help, and, and maybe not in the way you've originally envisioned your life and helping people, but now you are, you're the guy, right? Yeah. That no one else knows or, or that no one else can be there in the way that you can because of the experiences you've had and how much of an impact that's making.

You think about the ripple effect and we know it's inevitable. There's gonna be another injury at some point, right? And look at these army of Aaron Walkers we're building because of your influence. Four suckers.

Taylor: I find that army, I'd do it when I was, when I was in the RCA, so the fire academy, before I got hired or anything we had a special visitor and it was Brian Holbrook [00:41:00] and it was just a few months before he passed away, from cancer.

And he came in and it was essentially his last, 'cause he was a very, respected instructor down at Bridgeland teacher, just a phenomenal individual, like a true legend. But it was his last, it was essentially his got goodbye to the program, 'cause he knew unfortunately that he was gonna pass away and he pointed out and all, I'll, I'll, I'll remember this for the rest of my life.

It was so powerful. But just the best thing about the fire service is the people, is the people you work with, is the people that you're around. And that is an absolute, that is the most true testament to the fire service in, in my experience too. That is the best part of the job to me, is the people.

And that's just been, compounded by, I believe our stories, my story, just is just the people, they're just, they're so amazing. The brotherhood's amazing, the sisterhood, everything like that.

Brent: Yeah. Yeah. And I mentioned it earlier, but it's just, it's, it even sounds weird [00:42:00] just calling coworker it's just doesn't even it doesn't even feel at all like that, that goes deep enough to describe what it actually is.

Just a couple things as we wrap up then, if there's anything else you feel like, you wanna share we're all ears. But one is just some of your, for the guy that's listening to this now that doesn't know he's gonna get injured next year what, are some of the things that you wish you could make sure he understands?

He or she knows that? That that you want them to know about the experience they're about to go through. So think about that, that perspective. And then also anybody that's, that is in the middle of it, they're in the thick of it. They're having those up and down days. They're getting helped by their coworkers and they get the highs of the support, and then they get the lows of maybe feeling like they're not making any progress or the lows of not knowing what the future looks like.

And, and what, what's something you wish every one of those, those firefighters knew that you now know?

Tyler: Yeah. I'm, I'd say in [00:43:00] the moment that you're getting all that help, write that stuff down because it's gonna be really hard to remember. And when you are feeling like the world's against you and you have, I could have easily filled up countless notebooks of, of what people did for me.

I could look back and say. Oh, yeah. Look at that. Aaron Walker, he saved me from grocery shopping. He, he he just actually talked to me when all the rest of the admin were away. And, Cleven, I wish someone would've wrote down, would've wrote, written down that he brought me Arby's in the hospital and that made him sick.

I wish somebody, I, I didn't know that story for seven months afterwards. But yeah, keep, keep a mental note of that kind of stuff more than a mental note. Put it on paper and you can always go back and you can look at those things. Yeah. Love it.

Aaron: Obviously, pardon me, we, we don't wish hard times on anybody, right?

You hope nobody ever gets hurt. And the, the grind of, [00:44:00] of the job, right? You have good days, you have bad days, you have some things that really just piss you off. I'm sorry, upset you and you think it sucks and sometimes it does. You got a, you got a good crew, you're happy where you're at, something happens, boom, you're outta here.

Maybe to work with somebody you don't care for as much or you don't jive with as much. There's things, pardon me, that happen that, that kind of suck for whatever reason or another. But I those days can soon be your good days, right? Power through that kind of stuff. 'cause it really doesn't matter.

Those are, those are gonna be your good days when you do get hurt and you have to weather through all that sort of stuff, it'll make you look back and say, eh, that probably wasn't really that big of a deal, that's one thing that I always think of is 'cause I'd, I'd get caught up just like everybody else around the table.

You're growling about this or that or the other. And it's not that big of a deal. We have a pretty good, a pretty good gig overall.

Brent: Mm-hmm. B shift isn't that bad,

Aaron: but enjoy the, I don't know how you say it. They used to say, embrace the misery. Today's misery [00:45:00] may be tomorrow's dream. You just never know. Enjoy it.

Brent: Really. Yeah. And I, I think we're in a unique spot too, 'cause we see so many, patience and, and terrible situations all the time, right?

We know I got any group out there. We know how fragile and how fast things can change, right? And so out of anybody, you feel like firefighters should be able to maintain a pretty decent perspective on life, right? But man, it's a little different when it's, when hits you personally, right? And you're the one.

And, and so I think that's awesome. Doing whatever you can to. Keep that perspective proactively. So

Taylor: I guess I would say that what applied to me is give yourself the time to heal and to heal properly and don't come back too early. 'cause with my situations, like I definitely forced the issue and made myself come back too early before, before I was ready to, to really fully come back because of the guilt that I felt, that I felt like I was letting everybody down.

And I would just say the [00:46:00] only person who's worried about that is yourself, like everybody else. They just want you to be healthy. That's all they want is for you to be healthy. So give yourself the time and the space to heal, not only physically, but mentally and emotionally and, and just realize like everybody is, they're gonna be so happy when you come back, right? When you come back to the lion and stuff like that. And yeah, 'cause definitely like I was in the doctor's office come on I can go back like, I can go back. And he's no, you can't. Give yourself the time to heal and to come back properly.

Brent: So you can't let that dodge push you around. I've had six weeks of EMT school, you can't tell me about my injury.

Aaron: That kind of makes me think of another aspect of this that, that I had to tackle in my mind. When you do come back, man, they're lined up to lift for you.

They're lined up to do whatever needs done. And anyone in this room knows that they really are. Let 'em, it's okay, let 'em help you. Now I wasn't willing to do that for, it's been 10 years since I wrecked, [00:47:00] and I may have, could have fought my way back. I may have, could have, powered through it.

I pulled a Brian Holbrook or this guy, or that guy. And got back in there. But I felt like I would've been a liability and everybody would always be lifting for me. I wasn't willing to do that for 10 years, 15 years, whatever I had left in me. Okay. But let the guys help you. They're happy to do so and it's okay.

Brent: Yeah. Especially when, when you know you'd be willing to do the same for them. Yeah. And, and I think that's the part that's important to remember is like the help you're receiving is nothing less than I think what you're willing to give. In return. And I, and I think hopefully that allows you to give yourself a little grace, right?

It's okay because I know if the table's returned, I'd be right there doing the same thing. And so it's okay to, yeah. Let 'em, let 'em help me for a minute. Yeah. But cool. This has been very insightful and I think one thing I hope people take away from this is, is I think with, with physical [00:48:00] injuries, the mental injuries come as well.

But for those out there that are also suffering from just the unseen mental aspects of life, where, sometimes you have and, and you mentioned this before when we were talking before, that accident is now, everything in life was before and after that moment. Yes.

And it just becomes that very clear. Okay, this is what. And you kinda have that perspective and that baseline. I think sometimes the hard part about just the mental health part is, is it's not the clarity isn't quite as there and so it's harder to know when to receive help and when not to receive help and what can you figure out on your own versus what you know what's normal and what's not.

But certainly if, if your guys' story, as an example, show anything, it's our willingness to help each other in any aspect. And you don't have to. Break your leg to wait to receive that help, right? If there's other things people are going through, my guess is you three would be the [00:49:00] first ones there to help that person, regardless of the level of their injury, how severe it was or wasn't, or if they're just going through a rough time because you guys have been there and, and I think the unique thing that most people walk away with there's a, I'll just end on this and then if there's anything else, but been learning a lot recently about post-traumatic growth versus post-traumatic stress.

And we spend a ton of time talking about post-traumatic stress. And the odds are like one in, like six people will experience post-traumatic stress after an injury or an event. But the odds are two out of three people will experience post-traumatic growth where they, after their experience, they actually walk away a better person.

With a new found appreciation for life with a new, like new confidence that, 'cause I got through that, I know I can now do hard things, and they actually, in all areas of life, become better and more successful because of what they went through. And things just important to [00:50:00] remember that we're pretty resilient, resilient as a human race I think, but even as firefighters, maybe even more is that we're built to handle stuff like this.

And, and the odds are with you, they're two and a half times more likely, you'll experience growth after an a, an event than stress, like a post traumatic stress situation. And one of the tell tell signs of somebody that's experienced growth is their ability to see and help somebody else who's struggling because again, 'cause you've been there.

And so super appreciative for everything you guys shared. And, and just for the example you are in the department and everything. That you're doing and, and just keeping that brotherhood going. Like it's been so impactful for all of us, but it doesn't continue naturally on its own. It's 'cause of good people that are still joining and still still being a part of it.

Yeah.

Aaron: One last thought too. There's people that help in all these situations that don't get that maybe we haven't mentioned as much. I'm thinking of my family. Mm-hmm. And I know [00:51:00] family. It's, that's the, that's the other two thirds, right? That's where we're at the rest of the two thirds of the time. And those incidents like that affect everybody.

I, I, there's multiple stories with, with my younger two girls. Particular, they were still at home at the time when I had, when I got in my wreck. And it's far reaching, be it your spouse or your kids or whatever the case is, I saw pictures of that wreck. I've seen pictures of his, we see people get killed in less mechanism than that.

Healthy people. There's a higher plan. I, I know that still trying to figure it out, but there, there's, there's some other elements that are involved in each one of our lives with our families and different things that, that I think deserve some, some mention too. We're, we're where we are for a reason.

We're out there helping those people on their worst freaking day for a reason. And it's, it's, it's you guys that are doing that now for, for a reason. You're the right person for that person on that day.

Tyler: Yeah, I, I can't agree more. Shout out to, to my wife. Shout [00:52:00] out to cl Clive's wife. Shout out to Brent's wife.

Shout out to your wife. All of, all of your guys', all of your family's. Or I consider them family. They, we, we didn't get through this, just my wife and I, just my kids and I, it, it's crazy. We were in the hospital and one of our neighbors calls Aaron and is Hey, there's some strange dude here, and he's cutting your yard.

He's cutting the grass. He's trimming all these bushes and stuff like that. Do you want me to stop him? And she's I don't know who the heck this is. And after a little detective work, we found out it was a, a guy that I volunteered with years and years and years ago, and and families like.

Amazing. Couldn't have, couldn't have done it without my wife. And then again, I think you touched on it. We're, we're here for a reason. One of the first things that I remember is waking up in the ICU and I remember opening my eyes and I was looking down, and I, as I was looking up, realizing, like making the connection you're in the ICU and [00:53:00] you're in a hospital bed.

And I was like, okay, I can move my fingers, I can move my toes. And then there's just this feeling of assurance, of, of peace. And it just, it was, it was a voice that I felt in my heart and it just said, be still for, I'm with you. And that was amazing. It was powerful. And I knew that even as I was sitting there alone in a room with my worst critic.

That I had, I had some divine help.

Brent: I feel like you gotta add something I didn't do, but I don't teed it up for you.

Taylor: Yeah, I don't, I don't know what I could possibly add that was more impactful than what these two guys just said. But no, I, I totally agree with everything they said. Big shout out to the families, even extended family, parents, siblings, everything like that.

Just how much support they provide. Especially my wife, dude, she is a saint, holy crap for putting up with me and how hard I am and stuff like that. She's, she's incredible. For what, for what she's done. And, I think, [00:54:00] I think this is kind of a, a hard line to, to be able to figure out, but, helping people when.

Maybe they don't necessarily want the help, can have a, and and sometimes that goes really well and sometimes it doesn't. So when I had my back injury and I was in the hospital laying there and, people were getting ahold of me 'cause they figured out pretty quick that I wasn't gonna be at work the next day.

And me and Tyler were partners at the time and, and he called me and I was just like, I don't wanna talk about this. I don't wanna talk to anyone. I wanna be alone. I was so mad, I was just so mad. And 15 minutes later, this guy walks into the room with Del Taco and I just start sobbing crying as I'm laying on my back, tears just streaming down my eyes.

And he is talking to me like I'm 12 years old or something like that, because that's what I needed at the time. But I just. Yeah, I don't know what else I could add other than, thanks to everybody, thanks to these guys and how much support they provided and even just certain guys that I didn't really know at the time, sending a text, just making sure that [00:55:00] I'm okay.

I still remember that means the world to me. And hopefully I can still be that person for other people in the future.

Brent: Yeah, and I think that's a, a great note to end on. Because, I think we're hardwired and all the science backs it up that we're hardwired to be in a tribe, right?

And that's how the human race survived. That's the reason we're here today is 'cause people stuck together. And literally the worst thing you can do in a moment of suffering is isolate from your tribe, right? That's how we've survived for thousands of years, right? Versus and yet that's the temptation, right?

Is we want to just isolate and it's, yeah, it's pretty awesome when you have. A stubborn member of the tribe that ignores your request and just shows up anyway. So I think, I think that's pretty awesome. And and it's just, yeah, it's just so interesting to me that, that our temptation is to do the worst thing possible, right?

Mm-hmm. Is to isolate. And we're not wired that way. That's an unnatural instinct, but somehow that creeps in the [00:56:00] mind and tells you that's what you need. And so I appreciate you bringing that up and, and again, appreciate all you guys. I know that this, this topic is a heavy one, brings back maybe some things that you haven't thought about for a while, but your insights have been powerful and there's no doubt that this is gonna be a valuable episode for many, many people that will help them through their tough times and appreciate y'all taking the time to do this.

Aaron: So thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks Brent.